FFA vs Faction PVP

[jbs89]

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's not true at all. teams will only hinder pvp since it will limit the amount of people whom you can pvp with.

if any of this were true, the Rallos Zek server wouldnt have existed at all. teams will only cause nuisances such as immortal healers and more training.

the misconception that teams promotes more camaraderie than FFA is false.


I'm a product of Rallos Zek and Emu PVP. both instances i started playing not knowing a single person, yet I was able to make friends and join guilds instantly.

what makes you think there wont be guilds recruiting people in an FFA-based server?

hard-coding teams can only limit the potential of the server and will most likely cause lop-sided pvp. It's very unlikely that server would be 50 percent good and 50% bad.

imo its more inline with the Verant's original vision of eq which you may not have heard of

its a bit like Shamans vs Paladins from classic WoW... it works fine

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's not true at all. teams will only hinder pvp since it will limit the amount of people whom you can pvp with.

Someone proposed the idea of hardcoding teams until a certain level - thats the idea I'm advocating.

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if any of this were true, the Rallos Zek server wouldnt have existed at all. teams will only cause nuisances such as immortal healers and more training.

I doubt there will ever be a situation like Rallos again where the majority of people rolling on a PvP server are anti-pks. The Crusaderzogs are gone.

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the misconception that teams promotes more camaraderie than FFA is false.

As I said earlier, I usually end up hating my own team more than my enemy, but thats probably because I'm coming in with a guild/group and these are people that I cannot kill who are taking my precious resources.

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a product of Rallos Zek and Emu PVP. both instances i started playing not knowing a single person, yet I was able to make friends and join guilds instantly.

Theres gonna be people who will stick around regardless of rule set. The idea is the number of these people in comparison to the number of people who will not.

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what makes you think there wont be guilds recruiting people in an FFA-based server?

hard-coding teams can only limit the potential of the server and will most likely cause lop-sided pvp. It's very unlikely that server would be 50 percent good and 50% bad.

This is all personal opinion, but I doubt guilds are going to be recruiting at the low levels where I'm advocating hard-coded teams. The idea is the people who start the server, play up to level 10 solo - get stomped all day by a pre-organized group of players and then proceed to go back to P99 or whatever.

Now, you could argue and say that we don't want players like that on the server, but how do you know that the same player would not have stuck around and loved the server if they had a group to fight back with? Again, this is all for low levels, and it's a retention issue.

I also think the boxxing-limitation will be remarkably different from VZTZ. Non-solo classes will be hell to level without a guild on a no-boxxing PvP server.

[Heywood]

/edit this was towards jbs not pasi.

werent you the one who said original eq started with Rallos zek before vallon or tallon was open? so in theory, if Verant opened a FFA server first, isnt FFA their original vision?

regardless of that, this isnt Verant, this is developers possibly opening a pvp server for us, and they're looking out for the [pvp] community's best interest.

how is Player A not being able to attack Player B, if both are the same lvl, pvp or even promoting pvp?

If team-based pvp is anything remotely to wow, i can show you several servers where horde outnumber alliance 3:1 and vice versa. not to mention make end-game mobs more difficult that they would already be if PVP is present.

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone proposed the idea of hardcoding teams until a certain level - thats the idea I'm advocating.

that's feasible, but only until level 10, perhaps 12 max. But even then, it'll take away from pvp at the early stages, especially if the exp is extremely slow like original eq. However, I can see the majority of people choosing this.

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I doubt there will ever be a situation like Rallos again where the majority of people rolling on a PvP server are anti-pks. The Crusaderzogs are gone.

Exactly, people nowadays want to pvp, so why deny them pvp'ing certain people? and IIRC, I heard VZTZ started as a team based server, but too many problems occurred where they had to actually turn it RZ-style pvp. the idea of team-based pvp has been tried before, and it didnt work. I can totally see the same problems original VZTZ had happening here. with the extensive training/immortal healers. Not to mention the possibility of a faction not being able to raid end-game bosses because they dont have enough healers/tanks/dps/etc as the opposing faction.

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said earlier, I usually end up hating my own team more than my enemy, but thats probably because I'm coming in with a guild/group and these are people that I cannot kill who are taking my precious resources.

That's the thing, in a team based server, guilds will be forced to pick players by faction, not entirely by skill. There's also no option for switching from one guild to another, unless of course they're in the same faction. But can you see a scenario where a high elf cleric being frustrated because the guild he's in is not that great or doesnt share the same enthusiasm for pvp'ing or raiding as he does? what if he wants to join a certain guild that does share his enthusiasm but said guild is on the opposite faction?


And also it brings up a good point, lets say two different guilds want to down naggy, but they're in the same faction, how will resolve their differences? im sure they're not going to discuss it like gentlemen. I can see them training each other until the other gives up.

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is all personal opinion, but I doubt guilds are going to be recruiting at the low levels where I'm advocating hard-coded teams. The idea is the people who start the server, play up to level 10 solo - get stomped all day by a pre-organized group of players and then proceed to go back to P99 or whatever.

You say you doubt guilds would recruit at low levels? certainly you must have seen it in eq live, in wow, in any other mmorpg? is it such a crazy idea that it wont happen here?

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now, you could argue and say that we don't want players like that on the server, but how do you know that the same player would not have stuck around and loved the server if they had a group to fight back with? Again, this is all for low levels, and it's a retention issue.

I'm not going to argue that, but while youre looking at the short term effects of a team-based server, I'm looking at both short and long term effects of a FFA server, and i strongly believe that the benefits a team based server brings in the early part of EQ are exactly identical of that of a FFA based server. the big difference however is that I think a FFA based server will greatly benefit the population more in the end game rather than a team based one.

and it's not entirely FFA server, it'll be a guild vs guild server. which is exactly the same as a team vs team server, the difference is a guild can choose whoever they see fit to join their guild, compared to being forced to choose someone due to hardcoding issues.


so Guild vs guild pvp > faction vs faction pvp.

[jbs89]

It was in Verants vision to make a Dark vs Light server... so they did

The dev's decisions are just reflections of the Vision 1999

[Pokeman]

And also it brings up a good point, lets say two different guilds want to down naggy, but they're in the same faction, how will resolve their differences? im sure they're not going to discuss it like gentlemen. I can see them training each other until the other gives up.

and it works v well

teams are fun on a decently populated server

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by jbs89 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was in Verants vision to make a Dark vs Light server... so they did

The dev's decisions are just reflections of the Vision 1999

this is really going off-track. I'm just stating what I think would be best for a pvp server. If you want to say that the devs would rather choose what verant wanted over what is better for the pvp community, then that's you. I can't make such a bold statement like you, because i don't know any of the devs except for null. I'm assuming you have spoken to the devs and they personally told you this?

[jbs89]

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is really going off-track. I'm just stating what I think would be best for a pvp server. If you want to say that the devs would rather choose what verant wanted over what is better for the pvp community, then that's you. I can't make such a bold statement like you, because i don't know any of the devs except for null. I'm assuming you have spoken to the devs and they personally told you this?

its named project 1999 its a recreation... its implied [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by jbs89 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its named project 1999 its a recreation... its implied [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does this contribute to the guild vs guild server or faction vs faction server discussion? like i said youre straying off-track my friend.

i really dont understand the point of this. what are you trying to say? It's known that PVP was not a priority or a main concern for verant/everquest when it first opened up if ever. Everquest was primarily about pve and being non-linear. The devs did recreate that and have done a good job. However, if everquest had no real concern, interest, or vision for the pvp aspect of the game, how can the devs emulate or recreate that?


So where did you get this "verant wanted a lights vs darks server" argument? you said verant created rallos zek first, now youre contradicting yourself saying they wanted a "light vs dark" server.

once again, what's the point of all this? it's not really contributing to the discussion. I mean, you can continue posting on the matter all you want and actually think you proved a point, but i really cant be bothered with this if it really doesnt pertain to the server.

[jbs89]

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does this contribute to the guild vs guild server or faction vs faction server discussion? like i said youre straying off-track my friend.

i really dont understand the point of this. what are you trying to say? It's known that PVP was not a priority or a main concern for verant/everquest when it first opened up if ever. Everquest was primarily about pve and being non-linear. The devs did recreate that and have done a good job. However, if everquest had no real concern, interest, or vision for the pvp aspect of the game, how can the devs emulate or recreate that?


So where did you get this "verant wanted a lights vs darks server" argument? you said verant created rallos zek first, now youre contradicting yourself saying they wanted a "light vs dark" server.

once again, what's the point of all this? it's not really contributing to the discussion. I mean, you can continue posting on the matter all you want and actually think you proved a point, but i really cant be bothered with this if it really doesnt pertain to the server.

I dont understand how this doesnt "contribute". All your saying is FFA rules only, but Im disagreeing... they made the faction pvp server like 2 months later not 2 years later, its still relevant as a classic server.. what are you actually trying to prove? You sound redundant

The name is Project1999 not Devs-do-it-their-own-way-kids-choice-awards; they are going to follow Verants 1999 Vision Pre Luclin/Sony titanic failures

FFA is not the end all be all or #1 pvp method; its just the simplest; you definitely don't need Clerics Pallies and bards on the same team; and Necros and DK's will easily balance the scales; Shaman are fine healers last I checked

Its another Classic rules set and just because you can't handle it doesnt mean it isnt classic EQ; EQ is a hard game, maybe WoW would be easier for you