Iksar is the GOAT tank

[Zipity]

AoW doesn’t do AC checks is just lol, the problem is he is 10 levels higher than a max level warrior. But AC does make a big difference against him in mitigating the odds of him landing a full set of 6 max hits.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Zipity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AoW doesn’t do AC checks is just lol, the problem is he is 10 levels higher than a max level warrior. But AC does make a big difference against him in mitigating the odds of him landing a full set of 6 max hits.

Noted [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I can admit when I’m wrong. That probably came from a 20 year old memory from a ZAM poster, lol.

The intent was that most the hardest fights are hp ones, not AC stackers since the hit spread isn’t a thing (or not really one). In the end an iksar’s innate 35 bonus won’t change the outcome compared another half dozen similarity geared warriors.

[Zipity]

Yea the best thing for AOW is having 6925HP or more. Thankfully almost all the BiS gear with that much HP also has a ton of AC.

[putrid_plum]

There's only one race and thats iksar

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now you're talking in circles?

Why does the extra (I guess someone said 35?) AC an Iksar Warrior gets at level 60 only not matter when talking about what advantages an Iksar in BiS gear would have over literally every other race?

It's a twisted kind of logic that I'm really not getting

Premise: AC is king

Pro: Iksar have more AC than everyone else assuming equal gear

Con: I can't let Iksar have an advantage, so I'm going to pretend AC doesn't REALLY matter anyways.

I mean, I've already seen the argument that the really minor thing of Ogre having frontal melee stun immunity means the most, so why doesn't AC when AC is king?

Just the circles that people on this forum get themselves into to justify their way of thinking is pretty astounding for me.

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. This is the most relevant and true thing to say in response to the question of "Why not more Iksar Warriors"

But you like to talk about a lot of other things that aren't relevant, and when I try to talk counter point to those alleged points, you don't seem to know what to do except talk in circles some more.

I am not talking in circles at all[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The problem is you are simply vastly overestimating the value you get from the Iksar AC bonus. You keep going to the nonsensical argument of "What if the Warrior is level 60 with great gear?". That is a pointless argument, and way off topic. We are talking about why we do not see a lot of Iksar Warriors, not why level 60 Iksar Warriors are good or bad. Most people do not get their alts close to level 60. Iksar AC bonus scales with level. While I don't have the exact formula, My brain is telling me the base AC bonus for Iksars is 15. So if it scales linearly you are getting around 25 AC bonus at level 30. Most of the cheap, droppable Velious gear is 4-5 AC less than something like Cobalt, so you are losing way more AC in aggregate than you gain from the bonus. So yes, the gear restriction for Iksars is going to end up costing them MORE AC than the bonus they get from being an Iksar, unless you go with something like full Thurg Armor or better.

EDIT: If you are referring to my first post:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a few reasons:

1. For solo minded warriors, Iksars can't use quite a few useful warrior clickies. Warriors need clickies/proc weapons to make up for their lack of spellcasting. Honestly Gnome warriors have the best solo edge with their race specific, cheap, rechargable 40% Haste Buff clickie.

2. For raid minded warriors, none of that is going to matter. Avatar of War, for example, has a minimum damage of 900 or so, regardless of your AC. Half of the time you wont even be regenerating, as you will hit 100% HP quite often from all of the Complete Heals you will be getting.

3. Like Tunabros said, limited ability to gear until Velious. This turns a lot of people off, especially people who haven't played a warrior and just want to try it out. It is a hassle to faction up and line up multiquests for Velious armor. It is way easier to just gear up in EC, play the warrior for a bit, get bored, and liquidate it.

4. Faction problems, as Tunabros mentions. Iksars are great as Monks/Necromancers because both of those classes have built in ways to sell to merchants regardless of faction. Warriors need clickies to modify their faction quickly. Most people can't afford something like AoN, and the cheaper options tend to be more limited, either in faction adjustment or in number of uses.

5. If you want to Min/Max, go Ogre for Frontal Stun Immunity. This maximizes you agro generation by preventing gaps in weapon swings caused by stuns. They can also use all the nice plate that Iksars can't use, and have way better starting stats.

Specifically point 2 on raiding, that isn't a bash against Iksars specifically lol, which you seem to be assuming. No racial really matters at level 60 with raid gear, because as I stated earlier, a lot of raid mobs simply hit too hard for AC to matter that much, even if Iksars got a +100 bonus to AC instead of +35. That is why FSI would be best on a Min/Max minded raid Warrior, because that at least allows you to maximize your hate generation. You can also Ogre Wall Tunare. Any other racial is either useless (like halfling hide), or too marginal to matter that much (Iksar AC and Regen).

If you are talking about point 5, which you quoted originally, that point is correct. Quite a bit of old world plate is going to be more beneficial to a Warrior than cheap Velious gear, both from an AC perspective, and a Clickie perspective.

EDIT2: I think the confusion here is I have not been clear on why I am talking about a "raid minded warrior". The idea of my first post is to show the considerations one would be thinking about when they make a NEW Warrior. I am not talking about existing, level 60 Iksar Warriors. Those characters are ALREADY adding to the number of Iksar Warriors in the game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I do stand corrected on the Iksar AC bonus being less than the aggregate, assuming the Magelo Iksar AC calculation is correct:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...greWarriorTest
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...sarWarriorTest

From levels 1-25 or so Iksars do get less AC than the Ogre, due to the lower scaling of the AC. Once you hit 30 or so, Iksars will have a little bit more AC than Ogres with Cobalt on. Ogre's do get Lesser Shielding with Cobalt Vambraces, so that does basically close the gap at 45. Obviously Ogre still has better stats overall, plus the strength buffs from the Cobalt Gauntlets/Boots and FSI. They also get the infinite invis clicky on their breastplate. Cobalt Bracer for Shrink (and more AC), and Cobalt Breastplate later on for a sellable chest piece that offers a clicky heal.

So the main downside to Iksars from a gearing perspective for new Warriors (who are not spending a million plat) once Velious comes out is the lack of clickies. That is still the bigger issue, in my opinion. If you really want extra Regeneration for leveling, a Troll gets that, plus better tanking stats, plus the old world clickies. Trolls also have a much easier time fixing their faction.

[Zipity]

Shrink pot x2
Larrikans mask x2

Now I can self shrink and invis and recharge by myself probably until I die of old age before the cobalt clickies become a better plat value.

Once velious comes out gear is equal on all fronts.
Arch shielding clickie hammer is iksar useable.
All 4 melee stats StR/STA/dex/agi can be capped, hell even charisma can be maxed on a raid if you have a bard + shm buffs it’s like 181 extra CHA

Super endgame it’s Iksar for the extra 35AC that slides the cap(best defensive tank), or Ogre for FSI for slightly Better dps due to no bashes(best offensive tank). Holding aggro with that tier of gear isn’t gonna be an issue for either.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zipity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shrink pot x2
Larrikans mask x2

Now I can self shrink and invis and recharge by myself probably until I die of old age before the cobalt clickies become a better plat value.

Once velious comes out gear is equal on all fronts.
Arch shielding clickie hammer is iksar useable.
All 4 melee stats StR/STA/dex/agi can be capped, hell even charisma can be maxed on a raid if you have a bard + shm buffs it’s like 181 extra CHA

Super endgame it’s Iksar for the extra 35AC that slides the cap(best defensive tank), or Ogre for FSI for slightly Better dps due to no bashes(best offensive tank). Holding aggro with that tier of gear isn’t gonna be an issue for either.

Of course, there are definitely limited charge alternatives. The problem is simply that Iksars have terrible faction, so your recharge locations are limited. Iksars can get around all of the problems they have, it is just a lot more effort than most people are willing to go through, especially since Warriors don't have a lot of utility to begin with. That is why most people won't bother. As you say, super end game none of the racials really matter. That is why many people roll Warriors with fashion in mind[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But I think FSI gives more of an edge than AC, since HP becomes the biggest factor on hard raid targets, and I have seen my fair share of tanks losing agro. FSI helps with that, but again, not by much, which is why it isn't required for any targets.

[Kirdan]

You're all wrong. What is the point of doing something if you don't look good doing it? Iksar and ogre are eliminated from the contest due to terrible FQ. Yes, even guised ogres. You can't hide forever.

[Tunabros]

Human Master Race

min maxing is for casuals