Because there are no class forums and a lot of noob mages

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is mana that you will be getting back with Reclaim, because your airpet will have far more hps at the end of the fight

and therein lies the whole crux of why you don't understand anything that is going on here. the whole point of doing this is to ensure that you get 100% exp every time, e.g. your pet is GONE at the end of the fight. you're talking about traditional chain petting which is different.

which one is more effective? the verdict is out i suppose, but to get so vitriolic over theorycrafting really belies your lack of maturity.

[Felwithemagi]

This is called pet chaining, not pet kiting. Thank you for the write up though.

[Odeseus]

Slave is just a troll. The big difference between 49 fire and 53 air is the DS.

If you want to argue which pet does more damage, you're right that the air pet does more damage over almost any period of time.

If you want to argue which pet tanks better, you're right that air pet tanks better.

But neither one of those points is what the OP is talking about. It is all about mana efficiency and DS. First, in your calculations, you ignore having to cast DS EVERY time you summon a new air pet. If you don't DS, the extra damage from the air is moot as the 40+ dmg on the firepet DS will more or less equal out the damage. So you're burning through 250 more mana per pet for slightly better tanking. If you feel its worth it to you, that's fine, but most of us don't.

And the higher the DS, the better in this pet kiting/chaining/whatever strat. This is because DSs aren't attributed to the pet, but to no one. So this means you'll have to do less damage even if you don't kill off your pet for whatever reason right before the mob dies. Gives you more flexibility while still getting full xp.

Really, the only problem you'll have with this strat is when you chain the pet, making sure that the pet holds the agro. Might have to run around a bit while the pet regains control. This, coupled with the general rough time of pulling in dungeons really eliminates them from contention.

However, Splitpaw is decent for high 20's to mid 40s. There are a few places that are single pulls with enough room to chain a pet. It was my preferred leveling place for those levels. The only problem is that it can only sustain 1 or 2 people max. Just not enough places that are single pulls.

[Naerron]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are so, so wrong on every point you've attempted to make here, and I'll show you exactly why.

53 UNFOCUSED airpet: level-45, damage-56, hps-2650, stun proc-55, kicks for 145+

49 FIRESTAFF firepet: level-42 damage-58 (hits much less often and for smaller averages due to level though), hps-2000, nukes for 50ish

The end result is that the airpet ends up doing a massive amount of damage over the firepet in the same time period, as well as saving you a ton of mana in the end because of far more powerful tanking abilities. It deals much more damage, and it takes much less damage, to the point that it's extremely apparent you've never used one.

As for party play, if you have 100% of the time the exact same pull with the exact same mob positioning, the waterpet is still not as useful, BARELY equaling the damage of the airpet while losing the awesome stuns. However, in the middle of any Sebilis group, the airpet will actually do more damage, unquestionably, due to the fact that you're not going to have your waterpet backstabbing over 90% of the time, which is what it takes to EQUAL the airpet damage. And the stuns are superb.

At 53, if you're using your 49 firepet over the 53 airpet, you've obviously never summoned the latter even once and seen the absolute dominance the UNFOCUSED airpet has over the FIRESTAFF FOCUSED PET for a mere 100 more mana. That is mana that you will be getting back with Reclaim, because your airpet will have far more hps at the end of the fight than your THIRD 49 firepet, which is what it will take to equal the tanking and dps ability of the 53 airpet.

You're just so off base that I must question if you have a mage at all. It's stunningly clear how much more powerful the airpet is if you've ever used one at even one camp, ever. I mean it's really, REALLY obvious. REALLY.

I think you might be missing the point. No one is saying that 49 fire pet does more dmg thru melee and proc than fire pet...in a GROUP situation, yes air pet would be a better choice than fire. However say you are lvl 53, soloing outside KC in DL. YOu summon your air pet...bam 300 manna. Then to make it do the melee dmg you are claiming you must give it two weapons to make it dual wield....BAM that's 150 manna (75 each). Then you have to give it haste, there's another 150 manna. Then you give it DS. there's 120 manna. So now you've got your pet gtg and lost 720 manna.
...Ok so time to engage! You kill your mob w/ realative ease. you pet is prob around 40-60% health (optimistic), and it also stole 50% of your exp, or some think 75%. Then you go to attack your next mob....Maybe your pet survives the whole fight, likely not tho...you nuke it down and are oom. You then sit for 5-10 mins to get manna to kill 2 mobs again..

Nowww....With your 49 fire pet, using the pet kite strat you cast your 200 manna pet and are gtg...


Thanks for the effort man, but the stuff your talking about literally has zero relevance for the guide..The enthusiasm is appreciated tho. What i am talking about is ususing DS to kill the mobs, the pet's actual dmg can go suck a D....47dmg on every hit is baller, and if you really underestimate your DS that much than i'd hate to be a tank in your group...or be exping as slow as you.



EDIT: As for your comments about water pet..the lvl 54 way out DPS's the 53 air pet.. My water pet does 58 dmg max reg melee,quads. It BS's for 174 almost every time. It procs a 112 dmg nuke a lot. If you are that lazy or just that terrible at mage class to not set your pet up and do /pet guard at a spot where it will generally be at the back of a mob, then maybe mage class is not for u. Also this is a crazy thought, but communication is very helpful. SImply tell your tank to work on positioning so pets are to the back. I always ask my tanks to help out. It's a really scary thought that u get to the lvl where your water pet can BS and you let it not 90% of the time.

[Naerron]

Originally Posted by Felwithemagi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is called pet chaining, not pet kiting. Thank you for the write up though.

ACtually pet chaining and pet kiting are the same things. To those who say fearing and letting pet hit the mob is pet kiting...well that's actually called fear kiting while using a pet. Snaring and running...snare kiting...doing 4-5 mobs (b/c of the way a lot of target AEs hit) is quading...tons of mobs at once...swarm kiting....rooting...root kiting...

Kiting is a general term used to describe keeping the mob at a distance from u while u kill it. That doesn't mean pet tanking and nuking is kiting. It's like a theoretical "ideal type" for all those max weber fans out there. But this is so fucking off topic it's not funny..

[SwordNboard]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are so, so wrong blah blah blah

Have you forgotten that the fire pet has an amazing DS, and mobs melt when they touch it?

Did you forget that DS damage isnt attributed to your pet so it's easier to out-damage if the need rises on a hairy pull?

Did you think about the mana you'll save not having to recast your lower dmg DS on your airpet? Therefore giving you the mana over a longer timeframe to chain cast more fire pets.

Have you considered the OPs viewpoint at least once yet? (no) because he is talking about chaining pets. In general, sure, you're probably right (/backpat), but sorry this wasn't a general post.

It's okay to be wrong and learn something sometimes.

[godbox]

just dredged this up in the forums thanks naerron (if u still play / check here) been wanting to play mage but wasnt sure if there was a reliable way to get around the exp issues and lvl reliably without PL. Thanks will b makin myself a mage tonight ^^

[HarrisonIsStillPosting]

Mages are in a bad spot currently. I wouldn't roll one to be honest.

They were great before kunark but there are too many bugs currently that aren't being addressed by the dev team for way too long now.

Aggro with pets is broken as fuck, not even remotely close to the way it was on live, don't expect to chain pets to 50 like you could before.

Bolts are broken. If you cast another spell while the bolt is en route it will disappear, wasted mana. (Sometimes just doesn't land for no reason, too!)

etc. etc.

[batkiller]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Torch of Alna is used for the level 49 pet. I'm really not sure what it is that you're trying to say here, but you're beginning to say it in an awfully aggravated-sounding way.

Maybe it could be because you are acting like a big shot critic to someone who has spent all that time writing a guide to actually be HELPFUL to other people? If you think it's so wrong and you can do better then do it... you spent more time criticising his work than it would take to make your own guide.

[finalgrunt]

That's a good basis, but there is also lots of wrong stuff.

It is because all the agro that was on your previous pet is poofed into oblivion

While this seems to be true at lower levels, it becomes false as you level up and hit bigger targets. Pet will not take back aggro instantly, and will get sometimes get you killed with a normal chain pet technique.

Mage weakness is they don't heal, have poor mana regen, no CC, and of course do not tank. To remain effective, you can't have mobs hit you. Yet with chain pet it often happens.

I would say up to level 51 you can easily manage. After this is another story. Mage soloing pretty much stops being effective 51+, and duo should be favored, even more with mobs running away fast in dungeons.

You simply rinse and repeat this process till the mob starts to flee. When the mob starts running you poof your current pet using your reclaim energy spell or clicky (NOT the go away command this time), then cast 1 nuke. If that nuke does not kill the mob but still take over half the remaining health, simply summon another pet for the next mob and let it finish it off while you med. And BAM you get full exp evertime.

This technique, while valid, can't be said to be the best without going further into details.

When you chain pet, you need to take into consideration pet's life expectancy, to see if burnout is an option or not. Mages have got weak mana regen. And nuking every mob while also recasting a new pet each time is not always the most effective way. Sometimes it's just better to summon a pet, equip it, burnout and tear down many blues fast.
Safety is often overlooked, and different players will obtain different results. If one screws a pull for let's say 5 successful, the time required to get back on track isn't always worth it. Also, loosing a good xp camp over a stupid death sucks.

1) It is actually ok to heal or nuke if you think 1 pet will do the job till the mob runs. Normally mobs will turn to run at 15% **MOST UNDEAD DO NOT FLEE**

2) If your pet is below 20% the mob will not turn to run. This can be an advantage. Let the mob get down to 1% before u poof. The mob will initially agro on you but once it realizes you have a lot of health (which you should) it will start to run. This will let you use a lower lvl nuke because u only need to take care of around 1% health.

I'll give you my pro tip: if your pet is below 20%, and mob's health should make it running (but won't due to pet's low health), you can step into melee range and the mob will start running. Because when in melee range, the mob will always focus you instead of pet. Since you're above 20% hp, it makes it run. And it won't turn back on your low hp pet even after you left melee range.

About pet choice, earth pet should only be used to break camps. Otherwise fire pet up to level 51. Torch of Alna is the most important item you can quest as a new mage, followed by the eye of zomm clicky bracer.

Fire staff from Plane of Hate is definitly not something you will easily get on this server, and when you do, you'll have better pets anyway.

For soloing, earth pet 51 or fire pet as both as good and will achieve the same efficiency. Air pet 53 is better than 49 fire pet, when you can burnout.

Water pet 54 outdps air pet 53 by a large marging in a group. Simply because it will hit more, his nukes deal huge damage, and backstabs are pretty much double the kicks dmg from air. Stunning doesn't work so well due to resists. Actually, pet pushing is much more effective to prevent casting, since the target will be interrupted at the end of casting. After a quick interrupt from air pet, mob will restart casting instantly, lowering the true benefits.

Leveling spots are not bad, but some are far from the best.