Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

right. so if you have any sort of morale compass you need to leave that at the door if you want those pixels. I like being honorable, I sleep better at night because I remember there are people behind the pixels. TMO/FE don't seem to have any problem discarding their morality in the pursuit of pixels.

um, are u trying to imply that its impossible to lock down mobs while maintaining honorable status? or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the WAY that THEY lock down mobs?

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?

honestly, its the first time ive heard it. but to increase it's chances, i'd try to get in touch with nilbog or rogean via petition forum or irc or PM. as the decision makers probably wont be reading page 21 of a thread subject that has come up multiple times and generally recycles the same exact stuff from the previously similar threads

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

um, are u trying to imply that its impossible to lock down mobs while maintaining honorable status? or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the way that THEY lock down mobs?

I believe what he is saying is that there is a way for everyone to win but the idea is quickly dismissed as a form of 'non competition.' There are ways for everyone to win, but its a nasty 8 letter-word that starts with 'R.' Personally I feel the majority should not suffer to the whims of the minority. But then again, my idea is that R word everyone seems to hate for no other reason than "its not competition."

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe what he is saying is that there is a way for everyone to win but the idea is quickly dismissed as a form of 'non competition.' There are ways for everyone to win, but its a nasty 8 letter-word that starts with 'R.' Personally I feel the majority should not suffer to the whims of the minority. But then again, my idea is that R word everyone seems to hate for no other reason than "its not competition."

ive explained countless times my position on R word, and why many others (including myself) say it is absolutely not competition. go back and read my previous posts in this thread.

[Aaryonar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

honestly, its the first time ive heard it. but to increase it's chances, i'd try to get in touch with nilbog or rogean via petition forum or irc or PM. as the decision makers probably wont be reading page 21 of a thread subject that has come up multiple times and generally recycles the same exact stuff from the previously similar threads

What if my favourite GM in the known universe brought it up with them?
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] might have a better chance then, too.

I kid, I kid.


But seriously! Anyone who wants 0 variance in this thread has it backwards. TMO will literally get everything and no rotation will be made ever. If you want targets, you want full random variance. That's your best chance at content, as any other model offers a max/min player a way to max/min it.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

um, are u trying to imply that its impossible to lock down mobs while maintaining honorable status? or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the way that THEY lock down mobs?

Sorry, I'll skip the implication, allow me to directly state this:

Under the current rule set, it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain any sort of honor and simultaneously lock down mobs.

You're only here to enforce the rules, you've made that perfectly clear; but as long as the staff condones the FTE shenanigans, the "accidental" training, starting DT cycles to stall other guild's attempts, leapfrogging, etc It is impossible to maintain any sort of honor. The "honorable" guild either a) turns the other cheek EVERY single time, or b) resorts to the same dirty tactics that are used by the competition

BDA is a 100% example of this. We have strong leadership at BDA and we were forced to push the envelope to areas that we had never considered before in order to compete. We aren't going to train people just because it's legal, we aren't going to blatantly start DT cycles to stop another guild's attempt, and we aren't going to "accidentally" train other guilds.

As long as those tactics are available for use (condoned by staff) they will be implemented by the playerbase. People will always push the envelope for pixels, just look at the fun that's being had with IP exemptions.

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ive explained countless times my position on R word, and why many others (including myself) say it is absolutely not competition. go back and read my previous posts in this thread.

I've read it. Its anecdotal at best. The variance helps the minority at the expense of the majority. This is coming from a long time p99 raider, with more tracking hours that I'd like to mention. The variance is one option of many. I seem to recall someone saying something about "without change you can never move forward?"

[Emphase]

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?.

I like your idea a lot, it did remind me of live actually. I've ran through DL a few times and almost ran right into Gorenaire in the process. I agree with 100% variance. maybe some day it will get a shot and we will see it on this server

[OMGWTF420]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the WAY that THEY lock down mobs?

whats honorable about FTE sniping, rules lawyering, training, zerging? because that is how those guilds got to where they were.... isnt it?

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.

Here is what I don't get, Sirken. I think you are intelligent and sincere. Which is why I really don't understand how you can make the statements you do about variance. It's almost like we play on different servers. You say that variance prevents the top guild from dominating, yet there have been huge blocks of time where a single guild would get borderline clean sweeps (TR for several months after Kunark came out, TMO for ~10 months around last summer) and even when there was 'competition' there were exactly two guilds involved: TR/TMO and now TMO/FE. You say that lack of variance would allow a guild to manipulate the boss mobs to repop at inconvenient times, yet all the raid targets are killed within an hour of spawning, regardless of time. You say that you want competition, yet you have gotten Lord of the Flies. Have you read RnF lately? There is some serious hate there. People are flaming and trolling and spying and trying to dig up other people's RL information so they can harass them there. This is Chest's point: Why can you not see that some of us just don't want to be a part of that, and that it has nothing to do with 'competition' ? And why as staff are you encouraging this kind of environment?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is what I don't get, Sirken. I think you are intelligent and sincere. Which is why I really don't understand how you can make the statements you do about variance. It's almost like we play on different servers. You say that variance prevents the top guild from dominating, yet there have been huge blocks of time where a single guild would get borderline clean sweeps (TR for several months after Kunark came out, TMO for ~10 months around last summer) and even when there was 'competition' there were exactly two guilds involved: TR/TMO and now TMO/FE. You say that lack of variance would allow a guild to manipulate the boss mobs to repop at inconvenient times, yet all the raid targets are killed within an hour of spawning, regardless of time. You say that you want competition, yet you have gotten Lord of the Flies. Have you read RnF lately? There is some serious hate there. People are flaming and trolling and spying and trying to dig up other people's RL information so they can harass them there. This is Chest's point: Why can you not see that some of us just don't want to be a part of that, and that it has nothing to do with 'competition' ?

try seconds in some cases, minutes if it's a long pull, hours only if it's VP training or Fear shenanigans