My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[jilena]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have a different opinion that me, which is fine. Not everyone plays Everquest for the same reasons as you do. Please refer to my original post on the subject, which outlines it quite nicely.

For some people, the end game bosses is the game. Not crafting. Not farming, ect. It's that simple.

...

Like I said before, why camp in WC when you can camp in the zone? You still need to buff, kill trash, pull boss, and kill boss within 30 minutes. I understand that some do not like doing this and are vehemently against it. They have every right to their opinion, but there is also a flip side to that coin.

Okay, since you decided to not reply with insults and take the fun out of RnF I suppose I will be more adult as well (asshole). I am in no way implying that the end goal and/or result of either strategy (mobilizing or camping) is any different. I get that. I am even more than willing to concede that of the two strategies camping is more likely to yield the desired result.

I also get that right now this is a contest of wills between IB and DA. The desired result is for one of the guilds to break and admit defeat and more likely than not crumble as a result. To further this end both guilds have significantly lower standards of recruitment than is common for these types of guilds in a healthier competative environment. The current strategy being asses glued to the ground does not really require upper tier players and is honestly best accomplished by people who are bad at the game as you don't want your decent players getting burned out. Obviously once the other guild concedes most of these fail players will find themselves looking for guild yet again for some simple excuse or another.

I get all this. My point is simply that you CANNOT claim that camping and mobilization are the same thing. One (assuming you are not a piece of shit boxing whore... oh haaay haven't IP exemption requests been on the rise lately?!) requires your only character to sit doing nothing in one place for probably the entire time you are logged in. The other requires you to drop what you are doing and get some place in a short window of time. Whether or not you get the boss at the end is not the point I am making here. The point is that with a camping strat, I would be stuck sitting in place and unable to play my character. Were the strat mobilization, I would be able to do whatever I wanted 99% of the time and simply have to park my character in a convenient location when I am NOT playing. I don't know about you but I don't really care where my character is sitting while I am not in game.

I am indifferent as to the WHY of you choosing to do these things. I just think it's silly that people would even try and compare the two strats and claim they are equal and have equal impact on the lives and or in game enjoyment of the people involved in executing them. I find it REALLY hard to believe that the majority of the people involved in this camping catastrophe find it fun. I would be willing to wager that if the guilds coming out on top of this clusterfuck (IB and DA) felt they could retain the same degree of boss kills in a situation that didn't require camping, then that is what we would see happening. Right now, so long as camping gets you a guaranteed boss claim, if one guild is camping the other will follow suit. The current rules only allow you to fight camping with more camping.

Such a horrible situation regardless of how many shiny things it nets your guild.

[bullet]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask yourself for a moment what I have ever said about your life outside this game.

You called me a loser [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I don't wish death upon you, I certain wish I could kill your hair with fire.

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[Raren]

lol whoever bullet is i love him goood shit

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by eqdruid76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

STFU. You're as guilty of personal attacks as everyone else here, hypocrite.

I don't take issue with personal attacks. If I say something stupid and you call me stupid, that seems pretty reasonable. My issue is with escalating the insults out of pure meanness. I think remarks about people's kids are probably the most excessive examples of this, but death wishes are certainly right up there.

I violated my own personal ethics by attacking Abacab that way, which is precisely why I apologized to him. If you can point out other people I've ridiculed in these forums based on their real lives rather than their behavior here or in game, I would certainly appreciate that because I owe them an apology as well.

Perhaps these distinctions are lost on you. If that's the case, you're stupid. (You see what I did there?)

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by bullet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You called me a loser [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I don't wish death upon you, I certain wish I could kill your hair with fire.

That's surprising that my opinion of you would matter.

Sadly, your opinion of me means very little, but you did choose to be an anonymous troll.

[Phallax]

Oh picture time!

Camping =

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now THATS a poopsock.

[Abacabb]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I violated my own personal ethics by attacking Abacab that way, which is precisely why I apologized to him.

lolwut?

[rioisk]

nobody can beat the mach 5 at mobilizing

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[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Abacabb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lolwut?

Please see this thread.

[G13]

Originally Posted by jilena [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, since you decided to not reply with insults and take the fun out of RnF I suppose I will be more adult as well (asshole). I am in no way implying that the end goal and/or result of either strategy (mobilizing or camping) is any different. I get that. I am even more than willing to concede that of the two strategies camping is more likely to yield the desired result.

The thing I don't think you understand is that both scenarios require the same effort in terms of mobilization. 2 guilds are being proactive and preparing for the boss's spawn in advance. Nothing is stopping another guild from mobilizing before them and claiming the spawn. The situation as it stands now, is that both DA and IB are committing themselves and mobilizing for mobs way in advance because they want the boss kills/loot more than anyone else. Other guilds are not willing to do that, which is perfectly fine. It's their choice.

You still need to plan and coordinate accordingly. You still need your frost potions. You still need to coordinate bindspots, ect. The logical conclusion in terms of efficient is finding any way possible to cut down on time to be ready to kill a boss when it pops. Whether you have a 15 in zone first rule or not, it all depends on how badly a group of people want a boss and what they are willing to do in order to get it. You still need to pick your targets and think of ways to throw the other guild off their game, IE, calling timers, putting pressure, ect. Like it not, the current raid rules create a competitive game that has been being played.

I also get that right now this is a contest of wills between IB and DA. The desired result is for one of the guilds to break and admit defeat and more likely than not crumble as a result. To further this end both guilds have significantly lower standards of recruitment than is common for these types of guilds in a healthier competative environment. The current strategy being asses glued to the ground does not really require upper tier players and is honestly best accomplished by people who are bad at the game as you don't want your decent players getting burned out. Obviously once the other guild concedes most of these fail players will find themselves looking for guild yet again for some simple excuse or another.

You're right. It is a contest of wills between IB and DA. I don't believe that DA has lowered it's standards of recruitment, nor has IB. They have an application process where anyone can apply. You're given a fair shot to become a member. Not everyone gets into the guild. The lvl 50 game is very top heavy at the moment, with 2 guilds killing all the bosses. Obviously those 2 guilds are going to get more apps. You still need to be a competent player to help your guild when it counts. Like I said before, it's not like these mobs spawn on a silver platter. You still need to clear to them, pull properly, buff, and execute within a specific timer in order to get the kill.

I get all this. My point is simply that you CANNOT claim that camping and mobilization are the same thing. One (assuming you are not a piece of shit boxing whore... oh haaay haven't IP exemption requests been on the rise lately?!) requires your only character to sit doing nothing in one place for probably the entire time you are logged in. The other requires you to drop what you are doing and get some place in a short window of time. Whether or not you get the boss at the end is not the point I am making here. The point is that with a camping strat, I would be stuck sitting in place and unable to play my character. Were the strat mobilization, I would be able to do whatever I wanted 99% of the time and simply have to park my character in a convenient location when I am NOT playing. I don't know about you but I don't really care where my character is sitting while I am not in game.

You get all this, but you don't seem to to be grasping it. Getting the boss at the end IS the point of both DA and IB. The "camping" strategy is nothing more than a proactive mobilization strategy. You don't want to mobilize for a boss until it spawns, which is your choice. Other people have decided to be proactive.

I am indifferent as to the WHY of you choosing to do these things. I just think it's silly that people would even try and compare the two strats and claim they are equal and have equal impact on the lives and or in game enjoyment of the people involved in executing them. I find it REALLY hard to believe that the majority of the people involved in this camping catastrophe find it fun. I would be willing to wager that if the guilds coming out on top of this clusterfuck (IB and DA) felt they could retain the same degree of boss kills in a situation that didn't require camping, then that is what we would see happening. Right now, so long as camping gets you a guaranteed boss claim, if one guild is camping the other will follow suit. The current rules only allow you to fight camping with more camping.

Such a horrible situation regardless of how many shiny things it nets your guild.

This is your opinion, which is fine. What you find "fun" or "not fun" someone else enjoys because it's not about the camping. It's about the politics and the deeper strategic game being played on the board. It's about the guild VS game. Not the mob game.

The "Why" people do these things is the most important part. There is no difference in the strats because when the boss spawns, both guilds still have to do the same thing. Clear to the boss and execute. One guild is just taking the initiative to be in the best possible position when the boss happens to spawn. I don't begrudge anyone for doing that because it's logical. You have to understand that the precedent was set when a guild had a druid in each zone camping 24/7. They would wake up at 3 AM to quickly port in which took minutes and then kill the boss. Why would anyone competing with these circumstances play by their rules? If you want to beat them, you mobilize in the zone before they do, IE have your raid force ready and waiting before the spawn. They still have to do the exact same clearing, buffing, and execution.

The other guild that was porting in is perfectly in their right to roll call you and timer you. Nobody is stopping any guild or group of people from doing this. You don't have to camp anything either. You can wait until the boss spawns and roll call. If they answer the roll call in 1 minute, you call timer. No camping needed either. The burden is on the shoulders of the guild that mobilized days in advance. Not you.