Lord Nagafen & Lady Vox status (post 52 restriction)

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by EvilMallet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ravaged feachies mangina

I don't do dudes.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Cyrano [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top.

We didn't lose Nagafen and we didn't just kill giants prior to bridge. We killed up to Rokyl and then you guys decided you were gonna make a run for it forcing us to go a little earlier then we had wanted. You guys saw us there and obviously knew what we were doing and you guys chose the dickmove. You didn't give us even one attempt before trying to leapfrog. I guess we should learn your zerg strat of killing Rokyl and Naggy at the same time in case TR decides they want to jump Naggy on us while as soon as we down Rokyl.

I am also curious why you had never reported Naggy's failing to banish people post 53. That was our first attempt and we were prepared to be banished and then run/gate back, while most of our force was 52 or lower. For the guild that gets Naggy most of the time you should have known this long ago. Why didn't you report it?

Asher

[Motec]

Killing magus, with a tank, healer and dps, whilst tanking naggy with a tank and healer, is a zerg?

[Cyrano]

To this day I've yet to see Naggy's banish not work properly. If it's not, that's because we haven't put 60's on his aggro list but I promise the last time I was at a raid there our 60's sat the fight out. So post screens of our 60's or your 60's doing damage and not being banished.

So far as the fight went, I'm confused and will be honest that I'm out of town right now, but you seem to say that we leapfrogged you just after saying that we pressured you into going earlier than you were prepared to do which implies you wiped. Which is it?

[Eccezan]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cyrano, Karsten... no one is proposing TR hand out "their mobs" to the undeserving masses. Not a single person here is advocating that, as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm calling Xzerion and Karsten out for claiming TR "takes the high road" when in fact there are countless examples of them not taking the high road, and then the icing on the cake is Karsten pretty much saying that (paraphrased) "well, you can't clearly define this high road you speak of, so... sorry if we don't take it." So, now we can be certain this is simply a matter of "TR is expected to take the high road if it allows us to leapfrog over the guild taking the low road full of trash mobs."

You and the members of TR essentially have two choices:

Be competitive and get the raid targets, but respect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch, thus taking the high road. This won't kill you... you get 90-95% of the raid mobs as it is due to your intense competitive nature.

Be competitive and get the raid targets, and disrespect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch by:

a) fucking with their pull
b) rushing in to be FTE right before they engage
c) rules-lawyering some technicality so the GMs give you the loot after they killed the mob
d) sniping a mob out from under them by leapfrogging or other "dick moves"
e) generally doing whatever underhanded shit it takes to deny them

To this date, you have consistently chosen the latter route and have hidden behind the pretense of "competition".

But this isn't competition.

Competition was the first of the two choices above that you consciously make about the type of guild you want to be. The latter of the two choices is more about making the entire competition so goddamn fucking miserable for the rest of the players, including ones caught in the crossfire between the two main competitors, that no one else wants to play, and you win by default.

Winning by default by making everyone else sick of the game because of the underhanded shit that you do... is that truly the kind of competition you seek? Because if it is, then that's some sorry-ass spirit of competition you've got going there.

And the worst is yet to come when epics get released. You think TMO monopolizing Droga was bad? Because the name of your game is "deny everyone else anything that they could possibly use to come close to competing against you", we all know you're going to perma-camp Ragefire for your clerics, your cleric alts, and cleric alts of your cleric alts. You know it and I know it. Just like you're going to monopolize ST keys when Velious comes out, equip all your melees and their alts with primals and then put down all 4 warders. Hell, the plans are probably already drawn out on your forums, with who needs to be where, and what 8-hour shift you're responsible for.

THAT is what the rest of us have to look forward to unless TMO, Divinity, Taken, BDA, and VD all combine to do what we need to do to make it not fun for TR anymore and make you call it quits before any of that ever happens. But even that won't happen because the rest of us aren't arrogant or douchey enough to do the underhanded things necessary to stoop down to their level to cockblock a guild until they get fed up and stop logging in. Most of the rest of us understand that respect begets respect.

At the end of the day, when this server has come and went, no one is going to give a shit about what armor or weapons anyone in TR or any other guild had, or what mobs they killed, or how many times they killed Trak... all they are going to remember is the interactions they had with you. If you want your legacy to be "Wow, TR was a bunch of douchebags who ruined the server." then so be it. I can't change that. Shaere can't change that. Skope can't change that.

And I guess it doesn't matter because of the anonymity of the Internet, so go on and do whatever your conscience allows you to do, I guess.

this

[Grahm]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.



You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.



No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

Tell you one thing...Its sad you have to post this,

One more thing....It's even more sad it's true

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

We killed Rokyl. You see him dead, us looting and the arrows point to two TR members. Tixel, and Archaex(sp?). Chest appears to have just arrived on the right there fd up above the stairs but other then those 3 all are Taken. You know the rest of the story we move up and as we do so...

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[h0tr0d (shaere)]

That just shows the situation shortly before we move up, we didn't cry leapfrog at the bridge Cyrano. We do not claim anyone 'pressured' us and we didn't 'wipe'. You will also note in this post I had Oblexsis and Spacy in the back watching for well, watching. I am not sure what Asher is speaking of but this

Killing magus, with a tank, healer and dps, whilst tanking naggy with a tank and healer, is a zerg?

is fantasy. We pulled the lair, we killed Rokyl to directly refute what Motec is implying.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top.

was insulting to me because I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. And when was the last time this guild did this thing to TR to deserve the act? What we are saying is we aren't asking for you to surrender mobs. But in a position like this where we clearly got 'there' first, pulled all the giants to include Rokyl and you have 2 people there just let us have our shot. It isn't like we wiped, or sat there for 45 minutes bringing more people. We were there, you were not. Never have we leapfrogged or tried to gank another guilds' raid target yet apparently it is acceptable and defensible behavior to do this here? You want a race, a competition, you claim to be the best at mobilizing but when someone else actually gets the position first it means nothing because leapfrogging or attempting to leapfrog is a strategy? What I am saying is look, we got 'here' first wherever 'here' may be. If we were at the bridge, and TR ran by us that wouldn't be leapfrogging, the strategy would be how to engage and kill Naggy first and let the other guy pull certain fire giants. But there has to be a point where the other guild has position, otherwise it comes down to the same petty nonsense you wouldn't tolerate in your kids. Parents tell their kids to share or no one gets it, to take turns or wait their turn, adults wait in line or schedule appointments but here it is anarchy? How by any stretch of the imagination is leapfrogging in this case acceptable behavior? Because someone said 'it is ok to leapfrog?' It may make it not bannable behavior, but it doesn't make it ok. If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. And how do we determine socially acceptable behavior? Doesn't the society determine it? Well your society is speaking up, maybe you should listen. Forget the past and the nonsense that occurred, I am sure many of you thought it was bullshit but just accepted it because you had to. Here is the chance to not have to, and instead you refuse to help change things. Continuing to be part of the solution and not the problem.

[Raavak]

Takens mob? TR fte? This whole argument is stupid because TR even being near Naggy at this stage in the game is pathetic.