Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Using low tick DoTs like the poison line is fine.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enc/clr/wiz/necro for ports, DS, FD pulling, would take a uber geared monk over the necro if that were allowed though. For a unique class group that is. Other answer is still gonna be enc/enc/clr/wiz. This group will have whacked a whole continent of nameds before your DaP arrives at the druid ring you had to run to

I'd take a Shaman over a Cleric in these scenarios. The idea of the Wizard is you can teleport group members around the world. Shamans will solo much better than the Cleric. You could have the Necro/Enchanter, Shaman, and Enchanter camping 3 different things at the same time, with the Wizard doing whatever. The Shaman can duo with the Enchanter when duoing is needed for slightly harder camps. The Necro or a pocket cleric is just fine for reses.

[Duik]

Just go and solo ffs. You know you want to.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you able to admit you were wrong here, and just pulled these numbers out of your ass? Even with your unrealistic scenario of assuming Ebolt will always only tick 3 times, that is 548 damage for 320 mana, which is 1.71 damage per mana. Slightly worse than Touch of Night, but a farcry from "2-3x mana for 25% of the damage" lol. If you are even sometimes getting 4+ ticks out of EBolt, you are doing better than using Touch of Night. 4 ticks of EBolt is 2.16 damage per mana. The average between 1.71 and 2.16 is 1.935, which is better than Touch of Night at 1.7777.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I was referring to talking loading mobs up with the best dots.

I do find it amusing that you are splitting hairs on the mana efficiency of 2.16 vs 1.71 on a class with lich as if that difference in efficiency is a fraction of the difference between the dps of a mage (direct via nuking and pet and indirect via Dmg shield) lacking off and the much lower dps of a shaman trying to hard.

Remember, you also advocated (yesterday) for the cleric and necro healing the shaman so they can canni harder to still fail at DPS.

Enc/clr/wiz/necro for ports, DS, FD pulling, would take a uber geared monk over the necro if that were allowed though. For a unique class group that is. Other answer is still gonna be enc/enc/clr/wiz. This group will have whacked a whole continent of nameds before your DaP arrives at the druid ring you had to run to

Unless you specifically need to port to sky or hate, druid is the clear winner as the 4th if you wanted a porter. PoTG, mana free group regen, a better DS, harmony pulls if outside, and the mobility that goes along with sow and ports. They don't nuke like the wizard, mind you, but they nuke hard enough to make an impact when it's needed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I was referring to talking loading mobs up with the best dots.

No, you were just flat out wrong by a large margin. Just admit it please. I am not sure why it is so difficult for you to admit when you are wrong.

Even 3 ticks of Pyrocruor is 333 Damage for 400 mana, which is something like 45% damage for the same mana as Touch of Night. It is nowhere near 2-3x mana for 25% damage. You got both the mana and the damage values drastically wrong in all cases, regardless of the DoT. Please stop making stuff up and spitting it out, you are just going to confuse people. You also look bad yourself doing it.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do find it amusing that you are splitting hairs on the mana efficiency of 2.16 vs 1.71 on a class with lich as if that difference in efficiency is a fraction of the difference between the dps of a mage (direct via nuking and pet and indirect via Dmg shield) lacking off and the much lower dps of a shaman trying to hard.

In reality EBolt is typically going to do more than 3 ticks, even on trash mobs. You are simply doing your normal tactic of twisting all scenarios to be as bad as possible, so your argument looks better.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember, you also advocated (yesterday) for the cleric and necro healing the shaman so they can canni harder to still fail at DPS.

You have the two level 60s classes that have Ebolt, and you didn't know about the spell at all. You clearly don't know how much DPS a Shaman or a Necromancer can do, even with both classes at level 60. Please quit while you are behind. You have lost this debate in the most spectacular fashion.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just go and solo ffs. You know you want to.

https://www.adultandgeriatricautism....y-in-adulthood

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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have the two level 60s classes that have Ebolt, and you didn't know about the spell at all. You clearly don't know how much DPS a Shaman or a Necromancer can do, even with both classes at level 60. Please quit while you are behind. You have lost this debate in most spectacular fashion.

I am well aware of E-bolt. We have discussed it already in this thread about 300 pages or more ago.

EDIT: things may have changed since they removed the hate from poison counters but this line of spells was one sure fire way of absolutely getting initial unwanted aggro in the past.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am well aware of E-bolt. We have discussed it already in this thread about 300 pages or more ago.

So why do you believe EBolt will do 25% the damage of Touch of Night at the cost of 2-3x Mana, even at 3 ticks? You could look at the wiki to see that is so very wrong. Just admit you were wrong please.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So why do you believe EBolt will do 25% the damage of Touch of Night at the cost of 2-3x Mana, even at 3 ticks? You could look at the wiki to see that is so very wrong. Just admit it please.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Pyrocruor

https://wiki.project1999.com/Cessation_of_Cor

https://wiki.project1999.com/Splurt

Examples of dots I was referring to. 14.5 seconds + GCD and 900 mana just to load these 3 up all so that none of them have any time to do meaningful damage despite their superior efficiency.

E-bolt is the one potential exception ... but again ... even if you cast it the second the fight starts you won't land the spell until over 6 seconds later. If the fights are fast, E-bolt is less efficient than inefficient than a straight up lifetap, much less a direct damage nuke (undead or otherwise). The break even point is at 4 ticks (fight duration > 30 seconds) but then only by razor thin 'who cares' margins ... and it doesn't heal you while doing it.

In the meantime you could have gotten off 2 or 3 of these:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Chill_Bones at 2.57 DPM

or

https://wiki.project1999.com/Exile_Undead at 2.9 DPM


A level appropriate hasted/quadding enchanter pet + beefy mage pet + necro summon pet vs charm pet is going to make ridiculously short work of any standard xp group mob. The 3 of those pets towards the end of the xp group game will be putting out 250-280dps + whatever dmg from dmg shield before anyone lobs any damaging spell of any kind.

If you're hunting somewhere like kael arena where mobs have large hp pools and strong regen, the necro's spell lineup will understandably change.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Pyrocruor

https://wiki.project1999.com/Cessation_of_Cor

Examples of dots I was referring to. 14.5 seconds + GCD and 900 mana just to load these 3 up all so that none of them have any time to do meaningful damage despite their superior efficiency.

Except you were wrong here too by a large margin.

3 ticks of Pyrocruor is 333 Damage for 400 mana, which is something like 45% damage for the same mana as Touch of Night.

3 ticks of Cessation of Cor is 300 Damage for 250 mana, which is 68% damage for the same mana as Touch of Night.

Neither of these are anywhere near 2-3x mana for 25% damage. You got both the mana and the damage values drastically wrong in all cases, regardless of the DoT. You were wrong, just admit it.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Chill_Bones at 2.57 DPM

https://wiki.project1999.com/Exile_Undead at 2.9 DPM

Yes, you can use DD's as well. I said this earlier. As you can see, both of those are more mana efficient than Touch of Night. That is why healing the Necromancer is better than letting them use their less efficient Lifetaps for damage. Torpor is basically free when healing the Necromancer. You only need to throw one on every few minutes to make up for Lich. This gives your Necromancer a boost to damage with no additional effort for the Necromancer.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A level appropriate hasted/quadding enchanter pet + beefy mage pet + necro summon pet vs charm pet is going to make ridiculously short work of any standard xp group mob. The 3 of those pets towards the end of the xp group game will be putting out 250-280dps + whatever dmg from dmg shield before anyone lobs any damaging spell of any kind.

You seem to really want the extra bit of DPS the Mage provides, while simultaneously saying that increasing the Necromancers damage by healing them isn't necessary. It's nonsensical.

[fortior]

I would go wizard over druid for hate minis. I think when you’re talking high value targets there’s competition as well on p99 so you need your own porter.

Highest value 4 mannable things I can think of: drusella, hate minis, fungi king, SG, ragefire.
A necro or ench can hold down DS solo, not sure if a shaman can if asked to clear by a competitor. Fungi king is gonna be a 2 man affair, soloing it is possible but kind of a party trick. The wizard can’t do much solo so probably hangs out with the ench/* to TL them as needed/help burn

If a shaman can hold DS solo then you can do shm/enc/clr/wiz and just dps down all the mushrooms or sub a nec for fd pulling the king. But I don’t think shaman is the class you want for DS and there’s nothing particularly ‘valuable’ they ‘unlock’ ie. a 3-man without shm can do the same targets, just with less manpower. But without the nec no fd pulls, the ench is mandatory and pretty much carries the group, wiz is mandatory to snipe earth staffs/shields/necro books. Shaman is like, oh we are allowed a 4th pick and we can’t just pick another ench lol

I’d go cleric for paci bracer and aego/ch but I don’t think the priest pick matters as much as people pretend it does

[Duik]

Hands up who is lvl 60 and has torpor that wants to test this theory?
Desperately Slandering Mages is not included in this. No group would last long enough to prove it eithwr way.
At 60 you are not xping unless you take a few deaths. So none of the lvl60 sham with torpor are even gonna wanna do this.
This is/was for xp groups, not lvl 60's with full spell books parallel playing (nice one troxx) like you are extolling the virtue of.

Ok we get it, a sham wiff all spells and torpor can do wonderful stuff. A necro at all lvl stages can do virrually ALL the same things with slight mana efficiency differences. (As they can at other lvls. Better lich better taps etc)

Lvl 60 necro gets a better lich and another undead charm? They do all of that at lower lvls with efficiency differences.

Lvl60 shm gets (a chance at) torpor, the class defining spell. Before then they just a 5th wheel that can do a few things (that other classes also do) acceptably.
A sub60 or torporless 60 sham is just an inefficient cleric, a fat non charming chanter or a low dps malo mage replacement.