Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Nirgon]

What you risk with the poll is the bluebies troll voting for item loot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

Again, I agree that the server will last longer without it. What I will miss is people having to risk their resist gear to have an advantage. I will miss no drop pieces being more valuable or people running and frantically bagging gear. I've been on both sides of it, gaining and losing items. What it will boil down is how prevalent nerd rage is within the community... the force is strong with this one.

Most of these threads are just continuing the same argument in circles, I think the points have been made. The people posting here will play it either way, unless maybe there's hard coded teams.

[greatdane]

If anyone who doesn't agree with you is a bluebie whose opinion doesn't matter, I can see that discussion is pointless with you. I'm confident that the developers will make what they perceive to be the right choice, and that their choice doesn't blindly ignore the majority or the numerous arguments that have been made repeatedly in this thread.

[Nirgon]

Maybe the majority doesn't know what's best for them in the long run?

[greatdane]

Oh, come on.

[Nirgon]

Rather than let the masses (trolls) decide, let big Nilbog mull things over and make it happen.

[Xareth]

Originally Posted by Silikten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think item loot should be +/- 4 levels for battles to actually be somewhat fair. An 8 level gap is just futile for the -8 character ><

While gloinz is right, +/- 4 is just too comfortable for a pvp environment. There won't be nearly enough chars that can hit you, ezquest...

[Xareth]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Next, let's look at the purpose of red99. I think it's safe to say that its main function is to provide classic Everquest without p99's biggest problem: the inability for players to settle disputes among themselves. Hopefully it'll provide an entertaining and dynamic PvP environment as well, especially considering the increasing interest (from people most of whom don't want itemloot - how about that).

The main function is to provide classic EQ without pussy coding preventing the killing of other players.

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not to provide a griefing-centric PvP arena with as contentious and unruly community, which is what itemloot promotes. The more it hurts to die and the more you gain from cheating, griefing and being a complete douchebag, the worse the community will be. That's strike two against itemloot: it conflicts with what the server tries to provide.

Do you even like pvp? Do you want WoW Battlegrounds / Arena??

And as for the rest of it, you are probably right that item loot is not the most popular option, but consider this: the best part of pvp is the crying that ensues after a kill, and nothing promotes whining and nerdraging like itemloot.

[greatdane]

The main function is to provide classic EQ without pussy coding preventing the killing of other players.

That's exactly what I said in the bit you quoted. The purpose is to provice classic EQ with PvP so that players can deal with other players themselves.

Do you even like pvp? Do you want WoW Battlegrounds / Arena??

How does my saying that the purpose of the server isn't to provide a PvP arena indicate that I want an arena? Do you actually read or just randomly quote stuff? There needs to be space for the actual Everquest game, otherwise the PvP becomes kinda meaningless. Itemloot hinders gameplay.

the best part of pvp is the crying that ensues after a kill, and nothing promotes whining and nerdraging like itemloot.

I disagree. The best part of PvP is the quality and frequency of fights. Itemloot compromises both. It might make the result of a fight somewhat more interesting because of the potential exchange of an item, but the fight itself is often shit as people can't comfortably adhere to the designed itemization, nor are they likely to try to overcome a disadvantage during the fight because bagging all gear suddenly becomes infinitely more important than fighting back when it looks like you might lose.

You can argue that itemloot makes for a more exciting PvP environment, because that's an opinion. I don't think it's really possible to argue that it doesn't make the quality of that PvP worse and real fights less frequent, though. There's plenty of incentive to PvP both for the sake of winning and making a name for yourself, and to regulate the gameplay when necessary. Itemloot doesn't play a part in that, it just discourages the kind of fights that are entertaining and memorable.

[Xareth]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's exactly what I said in the bit you quoted. The purpose is to provice classic EQ with PvP so that players can deal with other players themselves.

Exactly, I didn't say you were wrong. It's just the way you look at it. I read your posts, you see pvp as an option added onto EQ. For me EQ is pvp; it wouldn't be fun without it. Evercamp, grinding, slaying dragons, gods, etc. are only worth it if you can do more with your items than put them on a magelo profile. Hence why I overemphasized.

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does my saying that the purpose of the server isn't to provide a PvP arena indicate that I want an arena? Do you actually read or just randomly quote stuff? There needs to be space for the actual Everquest game, otherwise the PvP becomes kinda meaningless. Itemloot hinders gameplay.

Well what you said right here

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not to provide a griefing-centric PvP arena with as contentious and unruly community, which is what itemloot promotes. The more it hurts to die and the more you gain from cheating, griefing and being a complete douchebag, the worse the community will be. That's strike two against itemloot: it conflicts with what the server tries to provide.

and here

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're one of the apparent minority who cannot enjoy PvP that doesn't include the possibility of taking other players' items, you may just have to accept that a PvP server that caters to the majority and aims to provide actual Everquest with a PvP theme, instead of Grieftown 2011, might simply not seek to satisfy to you.

make it seem that you're 1. a bluebie, 2. played item loot and lost, or 3. generally HATE on people that like / want item loot. Why the animosity??

Item loot does not hinder gameplay if implemented effectively. That part of EQ doesn't have to be classic, as classic item loot failed. There are other ways it could be done.

+/- 8 range coin, +/-4 range item (that way you might not even know if they can loot an item or not) is a possibility.

Also, what if you received a random item off the corpse? It could work.

[Xareth]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I started out on a blue server back in the day, and after a year or so I went to PvP. Played on TZ and later SZ, and I couldn't imagine playing on a bluebie server where there were no risks and nothing bad could happen. It seemed weak and pointless. I then slowly came to realize how utterly pitiful EQ's design is for PvP, it's so monstrously bad that I can't imagine why I ever spent a minute on it. There are merits to the harshness and consequences of EQ's PvP (because it's what makes the PvE rewarding as well), but the class balance and combat mechanics are just hopeless for the purpose of establishing a meaningful PvP environment. The game was never meant for PvP, and it was added as an afterthought and never worked properly. Not only is it so hugely imbalanced that meaningful competitiveness is impossible, but the fact that you can cause so much damage to others and waste so much of their time by griefing attracts the absolute rectal leakage of humanity because anyone who actually cares about the sport and challenge of quality PvP has moved on to more modern games that can provide it with the tools and knowledge that didn't exist when EQ was created. This aforementioned demographic of unsuccesful abortions is also known as the VZ/TZ community, and is the same community you'd find on red99. People play on Project 1999 to experience what Everquest was actually designed for: a challenging and punishing but therefore rewarding game where you depended on other people and had to cooperate as a community in order to thrive. If that appeals to you, you'll enjoy it here. If you want good PvP, play League of Legends or something. If you want to inflict disheartened feelings on other human beings in order to briefly forget out your own cripplingly low self esteem, try one of the hamfisted efforts at recreating EQ PvP, I think I heard someone was opening VZ/TZ again.

You hate pvp, is that why you hate item loot?

Ok, we got your vote.