#481
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But the even more important evidence was "BARDS DIDN'T DO THAT IN 1999!" AoEing every mob in OT was unclassic, and that was all Nilbog needed to go looking for the mechanic he was missing. The exact same thing is true here. We have mountains of evidence, all correct and arguing Enchanters should be the most powerful DPS class in EverQuest. And then we have even more important evidence that says they weren't even in the top five on any server (out of the many, each with thousands of players, that existed back then). 1 + 1 =2, and shit's not classic. And the only way you can argue that it should be that way is if you think every Enchanter back then was too stupid to try using their spells. That's not an honest argument, that's a "please don't classically nerf my class because it's my class" argument.
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue or Green servers, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of platinum and/or gear! Send me a forum message for details. | |||
Last edited by loramin; 11-21-2019 at 12:28 PM..
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#482
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These enchanters just want to continue monopolizing cash camps, don't hurt their source of income
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#483
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That's not the same thing as having figured out how to use a buffed, dual wielding, malod, -mr geared imp while you have a wc cap and root nets and a wand of allure and a telescope on your hotbar so you can duo freeti in relative safety for hours on end. Nobody is saying they were dumb back then. There's a difference between being dumb and having enough play time to piece together all the parts of the puzzle. And either nobody did that very quickly, or if anyone did it they didn't talk about it so thoroughly and frequently that became widely known. | |||
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#484
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GCD wasn't very widely known on live was it, along with recharging? How much of an effect on enchanters pwning camps would there be if these were removed?
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#485
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#486
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When a stun or a mez or anything resists and you have to wait 2.5 extra seconds before you can try again, when you can't refresh your top gem instantly? And then you're eating your monster pet's dps and whatever else you were trying to handle too? And in context, that's just one of the several things that make an enormous difference on here that were used by almost no one on live. | |||
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#487
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But look, we've gone from "Enchanters were too stupid to charm" to "Enchanters totally charmed all the time, but they just couldn't optimize it". That's a huge leap from where we started, but I have to try and pick at your rational/logical side some more. The core of my argument is "Enchanters weren't even a DPS class on live, but they are the best DPS class here; unless that can be explained entirely through player ignorance, the only other explanation is that this emulation of 1999 EverQuest isn't emulating it well enough." So let's engage with the "explained entirely through player ignorance" part. Just so we're clear, you're arguing that a "nekid" (or at least classically geared) Enchanter on Green can't charm solo effectively? I'm not talking about being the best DPS in the game necessarily, but are you saying they can't even be very effective DPS without -mr gear, an insta-click item, etc.? I think the evidence suggests they can. So again, what's different between Green and Live, if it's not the knowledge of all those other items (that aren't essential to the core act of using charm), and it's not the server mechanics?
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue or Green servers, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of platinum and/or gear! Send me a forum message for details. | |||
Last edited by loramin; 11-21-2019 at 12:42 PM..
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#488
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I would submit you're just mad/bad
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#489
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Edit: a word | |||
Last edited by Cuktus; 11-21-2019 at 12:40 PM..
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#490
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That aside, I don't think I've argued that players were dumb (unless maybe tongue in cheeck while meaning that they just hadn't had enough playtime to figure it all out yet), nor that everyone was charming on live. Consider me as a chanter. I played on live as my main. I played for years on P99 without doing one. I never ever knew they could do solo artist challenge type stuff until I saw the SAC and started Tecmos to follow in Save and Loraen's footsteps. I never figured out HS south until they showed me. I spent hundreds of hours soloing with Tecmos (blue), Tecmos (red), and Noman, but was still improving on my methods in my final streams I did with Noman after 6 years of nonstop chanting, 95% solo, on p99. I had to learn lev trick, corpsing keys, gnoming through doors, -mr gear for pets, even basic spell gem setup, I had to learn the best way to do all those things from other people. I never figured those things out all on my own. I'm not ever going to claim I'm the best chanter or the best player, but I like to think I'm pretty damn good when I want to be. And in 6 years I never pieced together even 1/4 of the stuff I would have needed to make the videos like I did in HS south/east, seb, etc. Is it a stretch to think that there weren't dozens of chanters who pieced this all together in only 3 years of classic era on live? Regarding the second half of your post though, just a day or two ago I challenged the people claiming that charm couldn't have worked this well on live to play a chanter on blue like it would have been in classic on p99 and see if charm still feels like it trivializes content and is easy to do. I would LOVE to see someone playing with randomized 1-2/hr link deaths, no GCD clicky, no -mr gear, no malaise on pet, who ocassionally chain stuns NPCs and nukes, also try to charm one of these DPS monstrosities everyone keeps saying chanters can control here but couldn't on live. I know what's going to happen. | |||
Last edited by Tecmos Deception; 11-21-2019 at 12:50 PM..
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