new patch ench charm

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Ropethunder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't compare a camp with ubiquitous number of spawns to charm kill one PH with a zone line at your back to the much more dangerous dungeon crawling variety.

Honestly, charming stuff was dangerous for soloing but it wasn't overpowered. It was perfect with plenty of unexpected charm breaks. Sure, you could get a pretty solid charm if you use it on something 10-15 levels below you. But that wouldn't be considered "cruise control to xp" as some have said it is.

Charming takes a lot of mana and is not as amazing solo exp as people think it is when you factor in charm breaks, med breaks, regen breaks when you take hp damage, and the plat sink for runes.

Higher level charms was perfect before this patch. And in Kunark mobs hit so hard that I would already only ever charm while in a group. A charm break means you get nailed even with Rune V up.

What was the reason for this change? Why was it considered overpowered?

I think if you had read more than 10 words of my post you would realize that we agree on just about everything, except perhaps the basic design philosophy of everquest.

[lyyfeleech]

In HS this morning I had 6 breaks in 4 minutes. I just pulled out a normal pet after that. Necro charm seems broken now.

[nalkin]

I am not sure how it was on classic but I do know that being able to keep a pet charmed on avg for 15min+ is OP. Pre-nerf enchanters were essentially mages with stronger pets and the ability to CC. How is that not OP?

[Splorf22]

BTW Nalkin you are totally wrong about enchanters keeping pets for 15 minutes. I almost never got 'your tashania spell has worn off' unless either the pet was >10 levels lower than me, i.e. lower level than a mage pet, or maloed by a shaman.

Thinking some more, I think Verant nerfed Whirl and Lull very poorly. The right way to do it would be to really increase the recast time. Lulling 1/2 mobs at a camp isn't a big deal, the problem is when you can just pacify a huge encounter.

[Uthgaard]

You're exactly correct in fact Verant is soooo concerned with making their $10.00 a month that they don't want the players to truly have fun. Where's my chain lightning or delayed blast fireball? Where's my robe of the archmagi? Where is my staff of the archmagi? The monk is cracking people in the jaw for 500 and i'm over here struggling to hold a stupid baboon charmed with my 240 charisma for more than 3 seconds. HELLO FAIR? This staff is as gay as all the rest of the stuff that dropped in Kunark and VOS for us. 2hb WTF?

Just thought I'd throw this out there. Happened across a random charm rant on Shissar Nullifier Staff that VS drops. They're all over the place. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure how it was on classic but I do know that being able to keep a pet charmed on avg for 15min+ is OP. Pre-nerf enchanters were essentially mages with stronger pets and the ability to CC. How is that not OP?

Says the mage. ;p

Through the scope of this project (launch -> Velious), chanters were just OP. Everyone knows it.
Charm right now isn't -as- unusable as everyone is claiming. It's still brutal, but not pathetic. It should be more reliable than it is currently, while slightly less reliable than it was a week ago.

Especially post-Tashanian, charm is supposed to be fairly stable, and stacked tash+malo should generally get you a full charm.

BUT I guess we need documentation to prove it? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lasher]

When i played ench during live. You needed like max cha, tash and malo for it to be super reliable. Max cha and tash from what i recall would let you keep a mob charmed for like one 3-5 mins but you would get alot of instant breaks that would bring the average duration down. Killing norrath guards that were around lvl 40-45 i could keep a guard charmed for about 1 fight. I hardly recall having one charm last more than 1 fight. Eventually i think in pop they gave ench aa's to help charm, Total domination and you would see longer charms but mobs where hitting so hard and your buffs were so much better than you could kill 2 or 3 mobs before your pet was close to dieing and you needed to memblur him so he would super regenerate health

[ziahh]

Originally Posted by ziahh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

enchanter charm on live was very unstable at low lv and as they grow stronger in lv their charm began being more stable. the only high lv charm that is unstable is the lv 60 that only last a few sec but the enchanter is being able to pet monster above lv 53

here is lucy data on boltran agacerie that clearly shown that the duration should last betwin 6 to 7.5 min ( duration shorter since we can charm lv 50-53 monster )
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...05&source=Live

also , allure spell last longer. here lucy data on it : 14.8 mins @L46 to 20.5 mins @L65
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...84&source=Live

so in my opinion spell patch no 7 was right on.

and for more info the historical data on charm that goes back to 2002.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...84&source=Live

thx you.

all the info are there.

enough says ... this is how it is suposed to be.

[kanras]

Originally Posted by Glitch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BUT I guess we need documentation to prove it? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. Ways to get any mechanic changed, ranked:

1) Provide significant time-relevant data. (For charm, anything post-POP will be ignored entirely)
2) Provide time-relevant class discussion.
3) Provide time-relevant comments.
4) Perform an effective pagan ritual.
5) Offer personal anecdotes. If you've proven in the past that you'll throw around wild claims any time a class you play gets nerfed, these will be ignored entirely.
6) Make a delicious sandwich, watch the grass grow, or pretty much any other activity that doesn't actually annoy us.
7) Offer personal opinions on how it should work.
8) Threaten to quit playing the affected class.

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure how it was on classic but I do know that being able to keep a pet charmed on avg for 15min+ is OP. Pre-nerf enchanters were essentially mages with stronger pets and the ability to CC. How is that not OP?

15min + charms were FAR from average. Average, especially in kunark, was probably 5 mins, imo charm was perfectly fine the way it was, now its just useless. I already noticed a lot more charm breaks in kunark dungeons than in classic prior to the patch. I just can't believe ench charm was this weak on live with cha on cap.