Leapfrogging

[azeth]

Originally Posted by xorbier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was like this on my server too. You learned tactics to reduce leapfrogging and mobilizing quickly was key. Sometimes it was a fun race to the target!

The race, to me, is concluded the moment a viable "Trash" target is pulled/killed by a raid-sized group.

example - Trakanon's "viable trash" of course would be the golems (golems right?). A guild who's started clearing (with a feasible Trakanon sized raid) from the Fungus Covered Scale Tunic area down to Trak cannot then be "leapfrogged" by a separate guild.

[fwaits]

On Drinal, if there was not an agreement between competing guilds for a zone/target, the generally accepted/enforced policy was first in zone with sufficient minimum raid force had rights. This was generally honored and worked fairly well. There are obviously details/specifics of this such as how many people is sufficient for the zone/mob in question, how long does that claim last (1 try, given time interval, etc), and such, but that's the general policy that was in place for the time I was around. (Up through GoD/OoW timeframe)

[Chicka]

First to engage means just that. Some encounters are regarded as multi-mob (e.g. NTOV) so FTE for the entire encounter is based on FTE the first mob. Clearing trash is not engaging the mob. There is no such thing as "leapfrog" unless the encounter has been engaged by guild A and guild B engages the next mob in the encounter.

Two rules (GM enforced): No training, no ksing. As has been previously mentioned the ks rule often wasn't enforced due to practicality, unless it was a common occurrence and could be predicted. The reality is most guilds realize that acting like asshats will get the same asshattery back at them (probably from multiple guilds on this server) - the net result for those guilds is a much harder time, more wipes, and less loot. It doesn't make sense in the end.

Whatever the rules turn into, please, please, do not have anything that gives precedence to who was in zone first - that would be poopsock all over again.

[Noleafclover]

Off-topic, sounds like you've got some sort of FFA anti-camping rules for before the mob spawns. AND I LOVE IT! Tracking/killing'd be awesome.

A solution to leapfrogging/ksing would be to use timers still, but only after the boss spawns. 15 claims, second has to have 15 to call time. Change the timer length for CT or any planar boss while trash is up to 1:30 or 2 hours to allow for clearing.

[Tronjer]

My old server had two top guilds claiming all current content and there was an unwritten rule between us to not involve GM's, since nobody really wanted some kind of forced rotation or stuff.

So when we got leapfrogged in Vex Thal once, we just sucked it up.

[Jeice]

There was zero enforcement, guilds would fight over the mobs and try to get there first. Leapfroging was sometimes part of Classic and thats something people knew and expected. Normally though if a guild was in doing something and another guild showed up they would sit and wait. If the guild wiped they would go steal the kill for obvious reasons, sometimes help the wiped guild do a CR... There was no rule on "saving" a target or requiring players to camp in a zone with 15 players for 48 hours so that they can be guaranteed the boss. I have yet to raid on P99, but from the rules I see and how certain things are dealt with I have to say its not close to the feel of playing real Classic. The whole thing of raiding back then was argueing with other guilds, making friendships with some and having pacts. The GM's did not play favorites or ban people for silly things, they let the kids play.

[Yukkers]

They made instances...

[Allizia]

In my experience rulings were made mostly on a "how do I get out of this with the least amount of drama" perspective from the GM's. As the top guild we were pretty much always ruled against regardless of the situation simple because another farm kill for us was less of a loss then an important or step up kill for an up and coming guild

It eventually got bad enough that a forced rotation was created

[Troy]

Like has been posted, officially the GM policy only considered single mobs at a time so you could leapfrog to your heart's content and GM's couldn't/shouldn't have done anything about it.

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I'm curious.

People who played live back in the day, on servers that did NOT have forced raid mob rotations, how did the GM's there handle a situation where Guild A is clearing trash towards a raid boss and is completely leapfrogged by Guild B which rushes to engage the mob when Guild A sits down to med. Obviously this is one large reason we are hesitant to go with a first to engage policy, but I'm curious to hear the answers and suggestions.

Also keep in mind there may frequently be situations where two guilds start clearing at the same time, leapfrogging eachother.

I like that you're expressing public interest in this. Would you care to share whether new raid rules are being developed?