What is BDA doing to work towards a raid agreement?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sounds good to me. we definitely need a separate vp agreement to avoid hate and rage, and rotating the ones that dont drop much would be a great start. hopefully leadership from both sides can come to an agreement on this kind of thing. and if we do a partial rotation, we can easily put in an engage time limit and allow any other guilds to compete with us if they wish, despite us not competing with each other. /cheer for getting along

and that's the sticking point for everyone, the hardcore side is absolutely willing to give up all kinds of mobs that don't matter for the most part (gore, tal, vox, naggy, maestro, etc) but VS/Trak/Inny/CT have been the issue. Every casual player deserves to finish an epic on their own terms. No one says we don't want to track the mob, it's not a handout, we simply want to avoid all the toxic elements that have persisted since the beginning of the server.

The rogean plan allows for new guilds that are just now forming to someday jump into tier 2 and get on a rotation list and kill a VS to finish an epic. I think that's something that the majority of this server needs.

[Autotune]

If you don't think changes are coming to how things are done here, I'd just ask you to look at what's happening right now with raiding. Perhaps you guys are too deep in the thick of it to realize raiding has been stopped all together and staff members are telling you they are bringing change.

This isn't sponsored by Obama.

All you guys have to do, is show that you can pick a plan and follow through with not poopsocking.

Sirken already said he would raid suspend a guild for 4 weeks and perma ban the offending trainer (First fucking offense).

Multiple staff members cited for saying variance will be reduced if poopsocking/raid target camping is obliterated.

Nilbog was in IRC asking for suggestions on how to stop alt army parking at raid targets.

So I ask again, why are you so hung up on the past raiding practices when they are being done away with when it comes to these proposals?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't think changes are coming to how things are done here, I'd just ask you to look at what's happening right now with raiding. Perhaps you guys are too deep in the thick of it to realize raiding has been stopped all together and staff members are telling you they are bringing change.

This isn't sponsored by Obama.

All you guys have to do, is show that you can pick a plan and follow through with not poopsocking.

Sirken already said he would raid suspend a guild for 4 weeks and perma ban the offending trainer (First fucking offense).

Multiple staff members cited for saying variance will be reduced if poopsocking/raid target camping is obliterated.

Nilbog was in IRC asking for suggestions on how to stop alt army parking at raid targets.

So I ask again, why are you so hung up on the past raiding practices when they are being done away with when it comes to these proposals?

i'm hung up on it because a new method is always developed, always, that's the nature of the game. So they stop socking or training, you don't think that the hardcores will find new ways to "compete" ?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm hung up on it because a new method is always developed, always, that's the nature of the game. So they stop socking or training, you don't think that the hardcores will find new ways to "compete" ?

Will probably bring in aliens.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and that's the sticking point for everyone, the hardcore side is absolutely willing to give up all kinds of mobs that don't matter for the most part (gore, tal, vox, naggy, maestro, etc) but VS/Trak/Inny/CT have been the issue. Every casual player deserves to finish an epic on their own terms. No one says we don't want to track the mob, it's not a handout, we simply want to avoid all the toxic elements that have persisted since the beginning of the server.

The rogean plan allows for new guilds that are just now forming to someday jump into tier 2 and get on a rotation list and kill a VS to finish an epic. I think that's something that the majority of this server needs.

VS/Trak/Inny/CT

You aren't geting 50/50 of these. Staff already said that. The best you guys could hope for is what I mentioned and that's only because if you agreed to it, then the guilds who talk about being better and put in more effort would have to put up or shut up when it comes to the FFA round.

I know for a fact, that with the raiding changes, there are T2 guilds who will get some of the FFA VS/Trak/Inny/CT's that spawn on those days (CT probably being the least likely, but also the most likely for a guild to end up with 4 weeks of vacation).

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Will probably bring in aliens.

there has never not been an escalation of tactics, the most hardcore will always find a way, you can't pretend that this hasn't been the nature of the game since it started

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm hung up on it because a new method is always developed, always, that's the nature of the game. So they stop socking or training, you don't think that the hardcores will find new ways to "compete" ?

There will always be the most efficient way to do something. However, I can assure you that if it's anything resembling rule lawyering or rule skirting that it's going to be met with the end of a nasty ban hammer.

CSR is done playing around (if people haven't noticed).

Even then, say it does happen and it's not dealt with swiftly.

You still have the option of falling back completely into your own set of targets that are outside of the FE/TMO/(IB?) guilds which still consists of the same mobs they gain.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and that's the sticking point for everyone, the hardcore side is absolutely willing to give up all kinds of mobs that don't matter for the most part (gore, tal, vox, naggy, maestro, etc) but VS/Trak/Inny/CT have been the issue. Every casual player deserves to finish an epic on their own terms. No one says we don't want to track the mob, it's not a handout, we simply want to avoid all the toxic elements that have persisted since the beginning of the server.

The rogean plan allows for new guilds that are just now forming to someday jump into tier 2 and get on a rotation list and kill a VS to finish an epic. I think that's something that the majority of this server needs.

It's such a big part. There is probably nothing more fundamentally EverQuest than the epics. That's a big part for a lot of people who come to the game. It doesn't deserved to be locked behind one particular type of raiding attitude, going after one particular type of classic. Yes, they are hard, and yes, the resources are scarce, and nothing about this plan changes that. It just makes it so you're not forced to buy them due to the content being on lockdown.

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS/Trak/Inny/CT

You aren't geting 50/50 of these. Staff already said that. The best you guys could hope for is what I mentioned and that's only because if you agreed to it, then the guilds who talk about being better and put in more effort would have to put up or shut up when it comes to the FFA round.

I know for a fact, that with the raiding changes, there are T2 guilds who will get some of the FFA VS/Trak/Inny/CT's that spawn on those days (CT probably being the least likely, but also the most likely for a guild to end up with 4 weeks of vacation).

GMs have said this, but not all staff nor all GMs are of a single mind. This is compromise, it is discussion, and everyone has a different view. It is the "staff" proposal that suggests a 50/50 split on these.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS/Trak/Inny/CT

You aren't geting 50/50 of these. Staff already said that. The best you guys could hope for is what I mentioned and that's only because if you agreed to it, then the guilds who talk about being better and put in more effort would have to put up or shut up when it comes to the FFA round.

I know for a fact, that with the raiding changes, there are T2 guilds who will get some of the FFA VS/Trak/Inny/CT's that spawn on those days (CT probably being the least likely, but also the most likely for a guild to end up with 4 weeks of vacation).

i could get on board with the VS/Trak/Inny/CT being a 1/2/ffa split only if other concessions were made as well from the hardcore side, such as full repops carrying over the current tier of mobs, fairly large windows (something like 6 hours to benefit the very casual) and that tier 2 mobs never fall into a sitaution where they can just be sniped by tier 1, and no clauses that drag tier 2 guilds into tier 1

[Handull]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and that's the sticking point for everyone, the hardcore side is absolutely willing to give up all kinds of mobs that don't matter for the most part (gore, tal, vox, naggy, maestro, etc) but VS/Trak/Inny/CT have been the issue. Every casual player deserves to finish an epic on their own terms. No one says we don't want to track the mob, it's not a handout, we simply want to avoid all the toxic elements that have persisted since the beginning of the server.

The rogean plan allows for new guilds that are just now forming to someday jump into tier 2 and get on a rotation list and kill a VS to finish an epic. I think that's something that the majority of this server needs.

imo VS is more about all the nice legs that drop, (and wizard epic). I still don't have my VS legs, and its not for lack of trying. Trak is both a super rare epic block, great BPs, and access to VP. Inny is fairly rare epic loots that, again, 'Tier 1' guilds still need for mains. CT also has rare epic loot as well as some really nice items and probably the best vanity item in the game that everyone wants. TMO and FE do get new members who are just starting out, and they also want epics, as do older members who haven't been so lucky. Yes, when epic MQs were being sold left and right, it was a bit insulting to the general player base, which is part of the reason why FE got off the ground, and now you don't see such rampant epic MQ sales. we all agree things need to change, and we can agree on the 'lesser' mobs, but we need to find a real compromise for the high end non-vp mobs. one side wants 100% ffa, other sides wants an even split. neither side will get what they want. Stealin's proposal offers a compromise, I haven't read up on some of the newer proposals otherwise to know what they offer. If you want to present a plan that compromises the two sides, I think it would be appreciated by everyone.

I wonder if there's any chance we all make an agreement to the "lesser mobs" now and get started raiding/rotation/whatever them, while we figure out the bigger mobs. Obviously VP would be off limits until everything else was settled to be fair.

quick edit: also keep planes +draco/maestro locked until full agreement to also keep it fair