Interesting Class Changes

[dafier]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every other Melee class receives double attack, minus bards.

Hence the reason why High level bards in raiding are for simply singing and scratching a monsters back...every now and then.

[dafier]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People who have never played a Mage underestimate the power of their pets. I've been in groups where my pet has killed an add before the rest of the group killed their target.

The only reason Necros are solo masters is 'feign death' + more.

Mages by far have the best pets in the game. And the Epic pet....especially on < 55 lvl content is crazy awesome.

I absolutely love mages.

[Arteker]

petty post, its a well know issue every class have his strong points and hard points.

AA system adressed the fact eq class where in a dead end and provided a excellent service to make every class more unique depending the work of each user.
in the case of magician in luclin the most ignore by most of them was how good was their pet heal spell wich focus would turn into a 1300 heal .

Ranger in velious was the most changed class overall with their whole set of atk buffs, and later in luclin even more upgraded by aas .

Back then Ranger popularity grew up due mainly to stupid add character Drizz do urden , and several people(even absor) being fans of salvatore.

Mages have no reason to complain in p99 , pre kunark their pets where not the classic magician pets (wich where kinda bad at time) while the necromancers never got their real 49 pet of doom.

[Halius]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

petty post, its a well know issue every class have his strong points and hard points.

AA system adressed the fact eq class where in a dead end and provided a excellent service to make every class more unique depending the work of each user.
in the case of magician in luclin the most ignore by most of them was how good was their pet heal spell wich focus would turn into a 1300 heal .

Ranger in velious was the most changed class overall with their whole set of atk buffs, and later in luclin even more upgraded by aas .

Back then Ranger popularity grew up due mainly to stupid add character Drizz do urden , and several people(even absor) being fans of salvatore.

Mages have no reason to complain in p99 , pre kunark their pets where not the classic magician pets (wich where kinda bad at time) while the necromancers never got their real 49 pet of doom.

I love playing my mage, I know that they have great pets and that every class is gimped somewhere. I wasn't complaining, just opening a discussion about what people thought would have been cool changes for classes in Classic EQ.

[Arteker]

note im not bashing but the issue of cc for magician 50+ was aswell deal with the following item

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=10393

classic mages who needed to use root where enough smart to carry a whole backpack of cliky nets from permafrost aswell and recharging them .

my question is , your post is for solo or group, because then it open a can of posibilitys to very critic answers.

im sorry to say this post remember me so much to monk crys about they could not pull nothing in luclin , pop . then they got monk luls, but it just turned monks who actualy could pull mobs by fd split wich would not be afected by them even harder to find.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by dafier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hence the reason why High level bards in raiding are for simply singing and scratching a monsters back...every now and then.

Even in groups, bard melee is low priority. You would be surprised how many people asked me to melee when the casters are lom and the puller keeps chain pulling.

CC > haste/buffs/mana regen > melee.

People need to realize that bards have no double attack and a 210 cap on dual wield. This means you have less dual wield checks than paladins/SKs, who have a double attack cap of 235. Mathematically, this means pally/SK melee damage is superior with equal gear/level/buffs, because they will double attack more than you will dual wield.

They look like they can do decent melee damage because they're dual wielding, so people think they must be kind of a rogue/enchanter hybrid who can dps and mez, but the reality is that bard melee damage is laughable. I play one, i see my combat log. Even with Aanya's Quickening (64% haste), fully shaman buffed + my stat songs all stacked, it's simply pathetic when i look at the monk/rogue/warrior/ranger having 8 hits every time i hit twice. And that's when i'm not missing 6 times in a row.

I do more damage with my 3 dot songs (163/tick at the moment) than meleeing and my weapons are decent. Guardians Mace and Harmonic Dagger.

And yet, when the cleric/chanter/wiz are lom because of a bad pull, i'm getting told to melee because "mobs don't die fast enough". The amount of misinformation about bards it's just incredible.

And yet, still today 16 years later, there are still people who go "nah, bard melee isn't that bad." No, it's really fucking bad.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even in groups, bard melee is low priority. You would be surprised how many people asked me to melee when the casters are lom and the puller keeps chain pulling.

CC > haste/buffs/mana regen > melee.

People need to realize that bards have no double attack and a 210 cap on dual wield. This means you have less dual wield checks than paladins/SKs, who have a double attack cap of 235. Mathematically, this means pally/SK melee damage is superior with equal gear/level/buffs, because they will double attack more than you will dual wield.

They look like they can do decent melee damage because they're dual wielding, so people think they must be kind of a rogue/enchanter hybrid who can dps and mez, but the reality is that bard melee damage is laughable. I play one, i see my combat log. Even with Aanya's Quickening (64% haste), fully shaman buffed + my stat songs all stacked, it's simply pathetic when i look at the monk/rogue/warrior/ranger having 8 hits every time i hit twice. And that's when i'm not missing 6 times in a row.

I do more damage with my 3 dot songs (163/tick at the moment) than meleeing and my weapons are decent. Guardians Mace and Harmonic Dagger.

And yet, when the cleric/chanter/wiz are lom because of a bad pull, i'm getting told to melee because "mobs don't die fast enough". The amount of misinformation about bards it's just incredible.

And yet, still today 16 years later, there are still people who go "nah, bard melee isn't that bad." No, it's really fucking bad.

unless the bard has epic, his instruments mod on his songs are more valuable than small dmg

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

unless the bard has epic, his instruments mod on his songs are more valuable than small dmg

I agree, and i'll even add that the real usefulness of bard epic is the singing modifier. It's the only item in the game that improves song based on singing. Every other instruments has a batter modifier than the epic, which is 18.

Since slow/mana regen cannot be improved by any instruments, the only thing bard epic gives is a better snare/debuff with the 51 song and slightly better mana regen with the lvl 32 mana song. It has a nice 55% haste proc with stats though, so if there is no chanter in the group, you can switch chorus of celerity for something else.

Earlier this week i was in a LCY group in KC. warrior/monk/rogue/rogue/shaman and me. Shaman was main healing with greater heal because he was 52. No clarity. How did he do that? Because i wasn't meleeing.

When i wasn't mezzing, i was stacking hymn of resto+niv's melody of preservation/3 pulses of mana song. Iksar regen+fungi+regrowth+hymn+niv's, he was getting close to 100hp regen ticks. That means a lot of cannis and with mana song on top of that, he kept 4 melee hasted and buffed + slow on all mobs + main healing with greater heal. Constant pulls too.

Me not meleeing was the right way to play, in that particular case.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, and i'll even add that the real usefulness of bard epic is the singing modifier. It's the only item in the game that improves song based on singing. Every other instruments has a batter modifier than the epic, which is 18.

Since slow/snare/mana regen cannot be improved by any instruments, the only thing bard epic gives is a better snare/debuff with the 51 song and slightly better mana regen with the lvl 32 mana song. It has a nice 55% haste proc with stats though, so if there is no chanter in the group, you can switch chorus of celerity for something else.

Earlier this week i was in a LCY group in KC. warrior/monk/monk/rogue/rogue/shaman and me. Shaman was main healing with greater heal because he was 52. No clarity. How did he do that? Because i wasn't meleeing.

When i wasn't mezzing, i was stacking hymn of resto+niv's melody of preservation/3 pulses of mana song. Iksar regen+fungi+regrowth+hymn+niv's, he was getting close to 100hp regen ticks. That means a lot of cannis and with mana song on top of that, he kept 4 melee hasted and buffed + slow on all mobs + main healing with greater heal. Constant pulls too.

Me not meleeing was the right way to play, in that particular case.

No it wasn't, admit it. You should have been pulling like a good bard ^^

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, and i'll even add that the real usefulness of bard epic is the singing modifier. It's the only item in the game that improves song based on singing. Every other instruments has a batter modifier than the epic, which is 18.

Since slow/snare/mana regen cannot be improved by any instruments, the only thing bard epic gives is a better snare/debuff with the 51 song and slightly better mana regen with the lvl 32 mana song. It has a nice 55% haste proc with stats though, so if there is no chanter in the group, you can switch chorus of celerity for something else.

Earlier this week i was in a LCY group in KC. warrior/monk/monk/rogue/rogue/shaman and me. Shaman was main healing with greater heal because he was 52. No clarity. How did he do that? Because i wasn't meleeing.

When i wasn't mezzing, i was stacking hymn of resto+niv's melody of preservation/3 pulses of mana song. Iksar regen+fungi+regrowth+hymn+niv's, he was getting close to 100hp regen ticks. That means a lot of cannis and with mana song on top of that, he kept 4 melee hasted and buffed + slow on all mobs + main healing with greater heal. Constant pulls too.

Me not meleeing was the right way to play, in that particular case.

^^ got the right idea about bard, problem with bards is always the same 75% lvled ultra fast thanks pb aoing , once they reach 52, and u ran od easy zones( bw isnt that easy) and try to grp they often fail big time or turn into mana song/haste bots most time.
again thats not a trouble of the class, is a trouble of the player like always has been.