How to Trust a moderate Muslim?

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, is that the reasoning they went with to try and wiggle out of Old Testament laws? "They don't apply to us because we aren't Jews of the Kingdom of Israel" The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out, and scholars came up with your favorable, convenient interpretation to fill the gap, in the same way that facilitated the Catholic acceptance of evolution.

You say "The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out." What are you talking about? Most of the "OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable" to the rest of the world. You seem to be thinking you're making a good point, but you're not. You're actually making my earlier point for me.

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have a soul. Nobody does. This isn't Narnia or Middle Earth or Cybertron or whatever you fucking whacko. This is Earth.

Anyway, all those scenarios you listed, they're all riddled with false hope. For their sake, I'd rather those people quit praying and instead worked to escape those negative circumstances in a material way, a meaningful way. But if they want to sit around and tell stories to distract themselves from their situation, have at it. They should be honest with themselves, though, and accept that faith is merely masturbation, but done without any real chance of ever achieving orgasm. Now that's just crazy, imho.

OK. You're a narcissist who is also a materialist. So why are you bothering to pop the balloons of everybody else's self-delusions? Why not allow people their "false hope." Does that make you feel uncomfortable that others have hope?

[iruinedyourday]

The fact of the matter is if christians acted the way they were told to in the bible, theyd be acting like ISIS

and if christians acted the way jesus told them to act, theyd be fucking bernie sanders.

SO VOTE ACCORDINGLY OR BURN IN LAKES OF HELLFIRE

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Lurikeen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OK. You're a narcissist who is also a materialist. So why are you bothering to pop the balloons of everybody else's self-delusions? Why not allow people their "false hope." Does that make you feel uncomfortable that others have hope?

Your hope is detrimental to progress.

Everyone knows that the utopian Star Trek universe cannot come to pass until humans quit dividing themselves artificially. Quit being a scared idiot, come together and join us in the future.

And there's nothing narcissistic about accepting the natural world and one's place in it. However, there's something insidiously narcissistic about claiming a personal relationship with the creator of the universe, even going so far as to suggest existence was crafted solely to give you a home.

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok you nit wit.

You mad bro?

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the meek are the week and destitute, they are who jesus came to protect. It is up tot he christian religion to help them above all else.

Do you even read the Bible? Are you even a Christian? Or, are you a pew sitter who got pissed off at your church and walked out, but now you think you are a "preacher" of sorts to Christians?

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The poor and the destitute are the people I and other SJW's hope to protect that are always under attack here on this fucked up forum. They're also specifically what social programs in socialist leaning policies are designed to protect.

Holy mother of Jesus! You really think you're here to "protect that are always under attack here on this fucked up forum?!" Do you messiah much?

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

basically everything you do as a GOP voter has nothing to do with what you believe. You would rather someone blew smoke up your ass calling you a god christian for cleansing the land of infidels and liberal scum.

Well, no, not a "god christian" but a Christian. As for the infidels, I am one of them, too. But I am not a "liberal scum."

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you're the worst kind of christian, one that worships jesus the way a pagan does a burning effigy.

you will burn in lakes of hellfire for all eternity.

So do you think I will be able to do the breast stroke as I burn in the lake?

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your hope is detrimental to progress.

Everyone knows that the utopian Star Trek universe cannot come to pass until humans quit dividing themselves artificially. Quit being a scared idiot, come together and join us in the future.

And there's nothing narcissistic about accepting the natural world and one's place in it. However, there's something insidiously narcissistic about claiming a personal relationship with the creator of the universe, even going so far as to suggest existence was crafted solely to give you a home.

OK, well I think our hope is with the Vulcans. Maybe with a Vulcan - Klingon alliance, but we can probably handle the Romulans with only the Vulcans on our side.

Oh, and before you quip that I ignored the "meat" of your assertion, I didn't. If you really think all religion is a fantasy, then there is no reasoning with you. You can't start presenting modernistic arguments against religion if you think it is all just a cartoon.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Lurikeen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say "The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out." What are you talking about? Most of the "OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable" to the rest of the world. You seem to be thinking you're making a good point, but you're not. You're actually making my earlier point for me.

Many of the essential elements of early Christianity did not make it 500 years after Christ's death, and many more didn't make it 1000. The "laws" of Christianity that were accepted differed by each region and culture. You're saying OT laws were rejected on theological grounds, I'm saying the reasons were cultural first. That's it. People didn't immediately reject OT laws because they were intended for Hebrews, and again, some OT accounts, such as the creation mythos, persisted. Even today you have people quoting Leviticus and Genesis to justify intolerance for homosexuals, including the Catholic Church (which manages the theology of over a billion Christians), and OT thematic elements are still a huge part of Christian identities even though it's a book about a hateful genocidal maniac.

This is an important observation because it gives us insight into the way religions and denominations involve in the first place, which gets back to the original point of my input into this discussion: Christianity tends to react differently to the passage of time than Islam does.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, is that the reasoning they went with to try and wiggle out of Old Testament laws? "They don't apply to us because we aren't Jews of the Kingdom of Israel" The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out, and scholars came up with your favorable, convenient interpretation to fill the gap, in the same way that facilitated the Catholic acceptance of evolution.

I'm not attacking your faith, but I don't think you can tell me with a straight face that the OT accounts of everything about Adam and Eve / Exodus / Genesis haven't been made so watered down and preposterous by modern understanding and poor theology so as to be a complete joke. I think very little of what the OT once was remains in the core identity of Christianity, and every time they bend the scripture to adapt it to a new century it comes a little closer to breaking.

You area really showing your ignorance here Lune =/ and just coming across as angry rather than reasoned. You're completely ignoring the essence of Christianity.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You area really showing your ignorance here Lune =/ and just coming across as angry rather than reasoned. You're completely ignoring the essence of Christianity.

Cognitive dissonance?

I actually think he's addressing it pretty directly.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You area really showing your ignorance here Lune =/ and just coming across as angry rather than reasoned. You're completely ignoring the essence of Christianity.

Tell me more about the essence of Christianity. Which denomination's essence are you talking about? Catholics? Lutherans? Mennonites? Because they are all pretty different.

Let's start with one of the basic fundamentals of OG Christianity: compassion for the poor. He who is humbled shall be exalted, right? Paul the Apostle made a big deal about this.

For over 1500 years there was an identity crisis between the core of Christ's message toward poverty and greed, and basic economic reality. Most Europeans wouldn't even lend money and charge interest for centuries. As late as the 1600's people were writing plays like Cenodoxus and Faust about the dangers of wealth and pride, people who burned in hell for making too much money and being proud of their accomplishments. Modern Christianity, and modern Christian nations, are so unlike Christ's original teachings it astounds me. It was a trend among Spanish nobles to see who could live in conditions of poverty with the most ostentation, and who could go on the longest beggar pilgrimages.

I'm pretty sure that simply by rejecting capitalism, I'm almost as Christian as you guys are.

"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:25 is pretty clear, as is Luke 14:11