duelwield question

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Bodeanicus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dual - adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or noting two.

duel - noun, verb
1. a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, especially to settle a private quarrel.

I appreciate you.

[stormlord]

Well I'm trying to figure out how it works on the server and this didn't really answer my question.

HOW DOES dual wield work?

On live, as far as I know, the swings were independent. At high levels the max dual wield percentage was around 60 to 70 percent for non-monks. With the ambidexterity aa it would go up to 75 percent. For monks, it would jump up to 90 percent, the highest in the game. Dual wielding also generates more aggro since aggro-generation isn't based purely on dps - this is what I've heard. It also causes 2x the number of procs because two weapons instead of one are proccing. Basically, dual wielding is good for getting aggro and keeping ripostes down.

What is the minimal dual wield percentage and how does it change as you level?

Does dual wielding cause more ripostes? I'm fairly sure it does (i'm thinking of rampage/enrage? right now)

Steewarrior says that a warrior at level 60 (or was it 65) w/o ambidexterity had a dual wield percentage of 62%.

That's what I know. Or think I know.

I've always thought that it's perverse for one to be better than the other. Playing games is ONLY fun because of the choices I make. Generally, the more the merrier. Without choices a game is boring. So this idea that dual wielding or a 2hander is better than the other because of one thing is dumb to me. I prefer making choices, not focusing too much on raw numbers. DPS should not be the only concern in a game. Luckily, it hasn't been in EQ. For example, I recall clearly a tank switching to 2 handers during rampage/enrage to reduce ripostes and switching to a shield to survive the high dps monsters. They'd switch to their extra hate generation 1 handers to get aggro. There's a strategy to their actions.

I hate one-size-fits-all answers. Games that do that are too simplistic. If people don't want to make choices, then there needs to be an "autoplay" button so they can sit back and watch the football game at the same time.

[falkun]

No idea about the percentages, but a few of your comments are strange....

During enrage, the tank should discontinue ALL attacks, not "swap from 2 1H to a single 2H". Enrage causes every frontal attack to be RIPOSTED, meaning the tank will not get a hit in and will be receiving damage for every attempt he makes to attack.

Also, procs on Everquest are based on a PPM system, so a slow 2H will proc, on average, as many times as a fast 1H, however he will proc more often relative to the number of swings made for an equivalent time period. In the days of P99 and classic Everquest, it was typical for a warrior to wield two high aggro proccing weapons, due to the increased number of procs from two weapons over procs from 1 weapon for the increased aggro generation. It was not until PoP that ripostes became a large enough issue for some tanks to swap over to 1H+shield or 2H weapons (at least from my memory).

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was not until PoP that ripostes became a large enough issue for some tanks to swap over to 1H+shield

that and the implementation of actually useful shields...

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I'm trying to figure out how it works on the server and this didn't really answer my question.

HOW DOES dual wield work?

Pretty much the same on live. Based on skill and a magic percentage SOE scornfully never printed in a handbook.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On live, as far as I know, the swings were independent. At high levels the max dual wield percentage was around 60 to 70 percent for non-monks. With the ambidexterity aa it would go up to 75 percent. For monks, it would jump up to 90 percent, the highest in the game. Dual wielding also generates more aggro since aggro-generation isn't based purely on dps - this is what I've heard. It also causes 2x the number of procs because two weapons instead of one are proccing. Basically, dual wielding is good for getting aggro and keeping ripostes down.

AA's are irrelevant. It produces more aggro due to the number of hits, similar to distance to mob. The proc math depends on the weapon's own internal proc ratio and in the offhand it's about half as much, a slow 2hander doesn't proc all that much less than two 1handers. Dual Wield is horrible for keeping ripostes down and you also riposte for like 30 dmg instead of 150+. Hence why often a good 2hander is better for solo work than 2 excellent 1handers. If you have someone healing you it's aggro > all.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is the minimal dual wield percentage and how does it change as you level?

Does dual wielding cause more ripostes? I'm fairly sure it does (i'm thinking of rampage/enrage? right now)

Steewarrior says that a warrior at level 60 (or was it 65) w/o ambidexterity had a dual wield percentage of 62%.

That's what I know. Or think I know.

Few have run real percentages for max level let alone "as you level", it shouldn't be a concern because your class hasn't blossomed yet. Dual-Wield in the mid 30's to about 50 runs ahead of 2handers significantly. Later ratio and damage bonuses tend to equalize the playing field. Your concern should be: Which does more damage? The answer to that bypasses the number of hits for your offhand.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've always thought that it's perverse for one to be better than the other. Playing games is ONLY fun because of the choices I make. Generally, the more the merrier. Without choices a game is boring. So this idea that dual wielding or a 2hander is better than the other because of one thing is dumb to me. I prefer making choices, not focusing too much on raw numbers. DPS should not be the only concern in a game. Luckily, it hasn't been in EQ. For example, I recall clearly a tank switching to 2 handers during rampage/enrage to reduce ripostes and switching to a shield to survive the high dps monsters. They'd switch to their extra hate generation 1 handers to get aggro. There's a strategy to their actions.

I hate one-size-fits-all answers. Games that do that are too simplistic. If people don't want to make choices, then there needs to be an "autoplay" button so they can sit back and watch the football game at the same time.

Having the ability to go 2h or 1h is important, same as sword/board and 2hander for knights. Rangers and monks who don't utilize some great 2handers for certain situations are foolish. I would pack one for damage shield mobs at the least.

If you ever switch weapons while tanking an enraging mob you did something wrong. You should always stop attacking completely. Typically as a warrior you will be using 1handers because you're going for max taunt. If you could hold aggro with a 1h/shield or 2hander it would be a much better route but at Velious level it's impossible (for a warrior). Warriors have a plethora of gear available and should at leave have one pack FILLED with alternative gear at max level.