Activists Hold Funeral For Frozen Chicken In Store

[Barkingturtle]

Dairy is pretty awful when it comes to cruelty. I mean, momma cows aren't milk machines. We forcibly impregnate them and then abduct the calves so we can steal the milk. The calves are slaughtered at about six months. This is veal. When Momma dries up, we repeat the process, until they are finally "spent" at about 4 years old, at which time we slaughter them. A cow's natural lifespan is about 20 years, by the way. Virtually all the animals we eat are killed as babies.

But yeah I eat pizza fairly often, just with non-dairy cheese. It's only cruel to my waistline, really.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But yeah I eat pizza fairly often, just with non-dairy cheese. It's only cruel to my waistline, really.

I know the feeling. ^

I respect you for your personal ethics and knowledge on the topic.

I just wonder how many people are not more active, perhaps it's just easier to put heads in sand and not know the truth?

Maybe it's too painful for those who are ultra empathetic to the plight of the animals?

Perhaps it seems too impractical and too big an impossibility to get away from the economics and reality of how modern man farms animals for meat and other animal based products?

[Lulz~Sect]

Haven't we been milking cows for millenias though?

[Pokesan]

a seat on the tallest horse in the world isn't worth not eating meat. you just gotta accept you're a garbage person(morally) and be ok with it.

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[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe it's too painful for those who are ultra empathetic to the plight of the animals?

Just imagine how painful it is for the animals!

Obviously activism isn't for everyone, but we can and should all make better choices. The hopelessness you describe is understandable, but huge changes can still occur within our society. I mean, here in America women have barely held the right to vote for a hundred years. Humans were considered property just fifty years before that. As civilization evolves it does so to continue itself into the future, same as any organism. And the future is going to be kinder all around--else it ain't gonna come, at all.

[Lojik]

The thing is that logic, reason, and numbers don't convince people, even intelligent people. It's just the same dumb shit that does convince people: what are my friends doing, what are other people my age/race/gender/nationality doing, what does soandso authority figure who i like think of said subject, how can i rationalize my past behavior or reconcile it with my other beliefs, etc. When you approach people directly with an opposing viewpoint and valid reasons you're going to get rebuffed. It's all about going about it in an indirect way and making the other person(s) feel like they figured it out on their own.

Meatatarian society (which I am guilty in participating in) will probably die off at some point since it's just not sustainable, the only question is how bad will the effects be on the environment before anything meaninful changes.

Also nutritional science is very young in relation to how old human society is, and what is considered good nutrition v. bad nutrition changes depending on the source. In 100 years when we have a lot more data to work with on long term health effects and nutritional sources I think we'll get a better view of what, exactly, would be an ideal human diet. Maybe in like 10-20 years google can start collecting data on exact environmental conditions for people as they develop, and better measurements on what foods are being consumed to allow better regressional type analysis.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What will that look like? Well, for the guy who demanded facts earlier in the thread, that will mean we stop killing 50 BILLION land animals each year for food. It will mean we stop killing a TRILLION marine animals annually. It will open up a third of the Earth's unfrozen surface which is currently reserved for the grazing of livestock. It will likely slow the destruction of the Amazon, where 9 of every 10 tress felled comes down to make room for animal farming. It will greatly reduce greenhouse emissions, since animal agriculture is responsible for more greenhouse gases than all modes of transportation--combined. It will devastate big pharma, who currently sells 4 times as many antibiotics for use on the animals you eat than they sell for human use(yikes your food must be super sick, huh?). It will free up a third of the world's water. Did you know it takes 2500 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef? 1000 gallons for a gallon of milk? 900 gallons for a pound of cheese? Nearly 500 gallons for a pound of eggs? I could literally go on all day with this type of terrifying data.

Since you did not mention the health effects of eating meat anywhere in that long post I'm going to assume you don't have anything.

Anyway, I think you are conflating industrial agriculture with meat consumption. I grew up in Iowa. On the way to the nearest city I would drive by one farmer who raised cows in their own feces. Literally. I can only imagine how many antibiotics he used.

I'm strongly against industrial agriculture. It burns huge quantities of oil and water and it produces low quality food. I think giving antibiotics to non-humans should be illegal: our flooding of the environment is training a generation of highly resistant superbugs. And I put my money where my mouth is by buying as much food as I can from local farmers.

But I think industrial agriculture is just as bad for plants. Massive quantities of herbicides and pesticides pollute the environment. NPK fertilizers drain trace minerals from the soil, and deficiencies in things like selenium are one reason everyone is so unhealthy nowadays. We have 50 different flavors of soybeans that are created in a lab - our ancestors were not eating this junk. It's the same story.

Unfortunately, industrial agriculture is cheap and delicious, and most people either can't or don't want to pay for less efficient use of the land. I have some hope, though. After Western Civilization collapses I think we might rebuild it in a more sustainable, less libtardy fashion.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since you did not mention the health effects of eating meat anywhere in that long post I'm going to assume you don't have anything.

Anyway, I think you are conflating industrial agriculture with meat consumption. I grew up in Iowa. On the way to the nearest city I would drive by one farmer who raised cows in their own feces.

I lived in Des Moines for seven years. It's the only actual city in Iowa, and the whole place smells like boiled pig flesh for the entire month of August. Who do you think you're kidding? And of course they don't put feedlots on highways. They grow corn in highly-trafficked areas because it's a much better visual. Of course the vast majority of corn in Iowa is grown to feed industrial livestock operations elsewhere. So it's all connected and it's only our myopia which prevents from seeing that.

But you want a health-related fact? I mean, your request was completely scatter-shot so I just posted some devastating environmental facts but uh, let's talk heart disease. Let's talk clogged arteries. This happens due to the accumulation of cholesterol. This kind of cholesterol is only contained in the cell-walls of animals. Nowhere else. Humans have no way to metabolize it, so it leeches into our bloodstream and eventually collects in our hearts. It contributes to a condition that kills us MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE and it only gets in our bodies by consuming animal products. If we are talking nutrition, shouldn't we start by eliminating things that kill us? Not convinced consuming animal products is a driver of heart disease. Well, wanna talk about cancer--the number two killer of our people? I mean, everyone knows the World Health Organization has classified bacon as a carcinogen on the same level as cigarettes, right? Right?

Anyway, I think it's disingenuous in 2017 to claim the consumption of animal products is in any way part of a healthy lifestyle, either for yourself or the planet. We know better, but we are all simply struggling to make choices we can live with, some motivated by ethics, some motivated by convenience, some by pleasure, some by fear of social rejection. I simply believe we are capable of evolving to do much, much better, because I see it happening. Namasté.

[Mead]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been vegetarian for 12 years. Off and on vegan...but that's the ultimate goal.

The first couple of years I sounded alot like barkingturtle. Online, at school, at work, I was constantly talking about it. Because it was so insane to me that we as a culture slaughtered helpless animals to eat their flesh and nobody batted an eye about it. In fact, I was the "weird" one because I questioned the practice. Fast forward though and now I actively avoid talking to anyone about any of my beliefs. At the end of the day it gets exhausting and frustrating arguing or debating with things their not interested in realistically spending some critical thinking on. I gave up trying to educate people and just accepted that some people see what I see and some don't.

I find a lot of the time people are more accepting of conversation about controversial issues when they don't feel like they're being pressured into buying into something they don't necessarily fully agree with. A lot of vegans I encounter always believe they have all the right answers. I get that they're passionate, but nobody wants to be patronized and annoyed. And no, it's not that other people are oversensitive. It's that they need to find a better way to initiate and talk about the subject if they intend on "educating" people. When you go full retard right from the start people are just going to shut down.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Mead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's that they need to find a better way to initiate and talk about the subject if they intend on "educating" people.

When we protest in grocery stores, they say we should protest farms.

When we protest at farms, they say we should protest slaughterhouses.

When we protest at slaughterhouses, they say we should protest at grocery stores.

The fact is, people don't ever like having their assumptions and ethics challenged. Admitting we've been participating in destructive systems is difficult. We'd rather shoot the messenger. Anything to avoid admitting our complicity, accepting our responsibility. Anything to maintain our cool, cynical detachment. I empathize. It's a bitter pill. I recommend swallowing it the first time.