new patch ench charm

[Splorf22]

BTW Nalkin you are totally wrong about enchanters keeping pets for 15 minutes. I almost never got 'your tashania spell has worn off' unless either the pet was >10 levels lower than me, i.e. lower level than a mage pet, or maloed by a shaman.

Thinking some more, I think Verant nerfed Whirl and Lull very poorly. The right way to do it would be to really increase the recast time. Lulling 1/2 mobs at a camp isn't a big deal, the problem is when you can just pacify a huge encounter.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure how it was on classic but I do know that being able to keep a pet charmed on avg for 15min+ is OP. Pre-nerf enchanters were essentially mages with stronger pets and the ability to CC. How is that not OP?

Says the mage. ;p

Through the scope of this project (launch -> Velious), chanters were just OP. Everyone knows it.
Charm right now isn't -as- unusable as everyone is claiming. It's still brutal, but not pathetic. It should be more reliable than it is currently, while slightly less reliable than it was a week ago.

Especially post-Tashanian, charm is supposed to be fairly stable, and stacked tash+malo should generally get you a full charm.

BUT I guess we need documentation to prove it? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lasher]

When i played ench during live. You needed like max cha, tash and malo for it to be super reliable. Max cha and tash from what i recall would let you keep a mob charmed for like one 3-5 mins but you would get alot of instant breaks that would bring the average duration down. Killing norrath guards that were around lvl 40-45 i could keep a guard charmed for about 1 fight. I hardly recall having one charm last more than 1 fight. Eventually i think in pop they gave ench aa's to help charm, Total domination and you would see longer charms but mobs where hitting so hard and your buffs were so much better than you could kill 2 or 3 mobs before your pet was close to dieing and you needed to memblur him so he would super regenerate health

[kanras]

Originally Posted by Glitch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BUT I guess we need documentation to prove it? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. Ways to get any mechanic changed, ranked:

1) Provide significant time-relevant data. (For charm, anything post-POP will be ignored entirely)
2) Provide time-relevant class discussion.
3) Provide time-relevant comments.
4) Perform an effective pagan ritual.
5) Offer personal anecdotes. If you've proven in the past that you'll throw around wild claims any time a class you play gets nerfed, these will be ignored entirely.
6) Make a delicious sandwich, watch the grass grow, or pretty much any other activity that doesn't actually annoy us.
7) Offer personal opinions on how it should work.
8) Threaten to quit playing the affected class.

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by kanras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. Ways to get any mechanic changed, ranked:

1) Provide significant time-relevant data. (For charm, anything post-POP will be ignored entirely)
2) Provide time-relevant class discussion.
3) Provide time-relevant comments.

This post contains all the time-relevant data (and links to such) that I am aware of...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6733

As a bonus, it also has classic-era statements from Verant about CHA's effect on Mez and Lull.

HTH

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure how it was on classic but I do know that being able to keep a pet charmed on avg for 15min+ is OP. Pre-nerf enchanters were essentially mages with stronger pets and the ability to CC. How is that not OP?

15min + charms were FAR from average. Average, especially in kunark, was probably 5 mins, imo charm was perfectly fine the way it was, now its just useless. I already noticed a lot more charm breaks in kunark dungeons than in classic prior to the patch. I just can't believe ench charm was this weak on live with cha on cap.

[redghosthunter]

Wow and we are still seeing Charm rage... I've been pulled into many of these threads... The ENC OP threads date back almost a year now... Look for yourselves. Nurfing of the class is not a new thing... Ya dont like it dont play a ENC.

Why dont we just eliminate the ENC class? that way we will not have years of rage ??? Even if that happened-- there be new cries of OVERPOWERED ... beastlords or something anything to bitch .

[ziahh]

Originally Posted by redghosthunter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow and we are still seeing Charm rage... I've been pulled into many of these threads... The ENC OP threads date back almost a year now... Look for yourselves. Nurfing of the class is not a new thing... Ya dont like it dont play a ENC.

Why dont we just eliminate the ENC class? that way we will not have years of rage ??? Even if that happened-- there be new cries of OVERPOWERED ... beastlords or something anything to bitch .

Dude... We're not on a server where poeple make change to fit their own opinion to what ever they think a class should be. this is a replica of
what ever was the class back then ( 1999 - 2002 or so ). Sony made the enchanter class the way they are and with each expension all class become more powerfull. its mostly like i would claim that backstab is op thus nerfing the ability to use it. You dont nerf a class skill that make this class unique. rog have invs and backstab , ench can charm...Leave it the way it used to be. i posted all the raw data earlier that come from lucy. Those data goes back to 2002.Make it classic again.thats's all we ask.

[nalkin]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

15min + charms were FAR from average. Average, especially in kunark, was probably 5 mins, imo charm was perfectly fine the way it was, now its just useless. I already noticed a lot more charm breaks in kunark dungeons than in classic prior to the patch. I just can't believe ench charm was this weak on live with cha on cap.

Ehh idk. When i grouped with Glitch a few weeks ago and I malad the mob, that thing would last forever. Probably over 20min. Maybe I am not remembering correctly or Glitch can say better, but it seemed to last a very very long time. And to have such certainty with that strength of a pet seems OP to me. IMO it should last around 6min on average. If that was the case then I agree it should be reverted back to that.

I do have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth from seeing enchanters soloing so easily for the past year with whirl and charm being way OP. I remember just sitting in kedge watching enchanter chain whirl undertow with charmed seahorse and the seahorse took near 0 damage. Same thing with Estrella. It was just incredibly easy for enchanter to kill these camps which a group would have difficulty doing.

[Uthgaard]

You're exactly correct in fact Verant is soooo concerned with making their $10.00 a month that they don't want the players to truly have fun. Where's my chain lightning or delayed blast fireball? Where's my robe of the archmagi? Where is my staff of the archmagi? The monk is cracking people in the jaw for 500 and i'm over here struggling to hold a stupid baboon charmed with my 240 charisma for more than 3 seconds. HELLO FAIR? This staff is as gay as all the rest of the stuff that dropped in Kunark and VOS for us. 2hb WTF?

Just thought I'd throw this out there. Happened across a random charm rant on Shissar Nullifier Staff that VS drops. They're all over the place. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]