The Manastone Calculation

[kjs86z]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's another calculation for druid with manastone.

At 200 meditate you gain 16mana/tic sitting.

Chloro = 1500 hp over 15 minutes. That equates to 500 mana from manastone. Minus 200 mana for cost of chloro = 300 mana. That's 18.76 tics of siting down medding. That means you are saving 1m 52seconds -- every 15 minutes of active fighting.

That's 12.5% time saved.

If manastone takes 60 hours to camp. You would need 480 hours (20 days) of active play (using your mana for killing, porting, buffing, etc) to break even on time, and then you are gaining "free" time every minute from then on.

If you're a druid, do you have 20 days of /played time that was active? We're still in Vanilla and PoHate and SolRo isn't even out yet, and for most 50 druids, this is probably true - for anyone playing since Day 1 this is probably true.

Cleric even more insane with CH.

/thread

One thing to keep in mind about this is the 20 days /played is only time spent when you're playing at max efficiency. I'd argue the average P99 Green player will hit maybe 50% of this across their entire time logged into the game on that character.

This is pure spit-balling but roll with me here.

So let's call it 40 days /played to break even instead for shits and giggles. On a healthy 15 hour per week average play time, it will take 64 real life weeks to truly break even for our average joe blow casual p99 druid player's unhealthy trip into the Autism Abyss for a m-stone.

No idea when Kunark is supposed to drop but if you have plans on acquiring a manastone still, you better get in line soon and plan on playing a LOT of everquest to make it "worthwhile." And at the end of the day, was it really worth it?

Consider Blue.

[Wallicker]

Also once you get manastone it just appreciates in value the longer you hold it, not to mention those 2-3days of camping your time wouldn’t be 100% maximized like it is camping a manastone. If you have the ability to camp a manastone nonstop for 50hrs you probably would be hard pressed to find another way to make 2k+ per hour consistently(it can be done but probably just as much of not more work and would be hard to do it in one 50hr spurt).

[Albane]

The only reason to have a Manastone is to be able to handle content you find challening. What in classic is challenging and requires extra mana? PoF was cleared 3 hours after it was released by over 200 people.

Manastone camps are one of those things that will make you sick when you look back on your time later in life.

[Taric]

Rumor has it that, whenever you are on Kunark or Velious, you can hear your Manastone weeping in your pocket.

[Castle2.0]

The only reason to have a Manastone is to be able to handle content you find challening

Bad assumption. Yes, an extra heal or nuke is great and a big reason -- and yes doing content with less gear, less people can make some things in classic challenging.

The big reason is less downtime. Downtime isn't challenging, it's just a drain on my play time. Invest X time now to get 2X or 3X time later.

Cd288, don't worry. I will sell The Manastone for a minimum of 200K when the time is right.

[Castle2.0]

I'd argue the average P99 Green player

The average green player won't be buying a manastone for many reasons, not the least of which is not enough plat in the bank.

Let's say someone is a bit more hardcore. They play ~3 hours of actual camping, kiting, porting, etc. a day. I wouldn't call this 'hardcore' by P99 standards - probably around average - but by your numbers.

A little over 5 months break even time. Not bad - since the above mentioned person will play beyond 5 months.

Also, when speaking of the price of a manastone in the market it's not based on the average joe, it's based on people actually buying/selling.

If you've seen an order book on an exchange -- see here: https://www.multitrader.io/wp-conten...o-15.26.33.png

There are lots of low offers of buyers and high offers of sellers. Where the real price is (the mid-market rate) where real transactions take place.

All that to say, it doesn't matter if 100 people say manastone is only worth 50-80k (right now) -- plenty of these people on the forums -- and it doesn't matter if 100 people say it's worth 500k (right now.) The real price is where the transaction takes place in the middle. My argument here is not about the real price of The Manastone at this point in time. I am simply showing how to help someone calculate it's worth by comparing the context of camping a manastone vs camping plat/rare items.

As this truth sets in and time ticks on we will see the true value of the manastone reflected in the pricing.

[Tuljin]

All this EQ paper napkin arithmetic never accounts for inflation.

The saved time math certainly "adds up" but here is the caveat - when Kunark drops you'd have to level 50-60 exclusively in the Hole to get this "saved time." Nobody is going to do that. Hole is an amazing zone but it'll be a ghost town (pun intended) just like Blue because nobody can really "handle it" and you can't just /lfg at zonein.

The market dictates the price. The first manastone sold for 60k in December was it? Now February not quite two months later one goes for 115? It's not really "more money" lol

[Tilien]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The average green player won't be buying a manastone for many reasons, not the least of which is not enough plat in the bank.

Let's say someone is a bit more hardcore. They play ~3 hours of actual camping, kiting, porting, etc. a day. I wouldn't call this 'hardcore' by P99 standards - probably around average - but by your numbers.

A little over 5 months break even time. Not bad - since the above mentioned person will play beyond 5 months.

Also, when speaking of the price of a manastone in the market it's not based on the average joe, it's based on people actually buying/selling.

If you've seen an order book on an exchange -- see here: https://www.multitrader.io/wp-conten...o-15.26.33.png

There are lots of low offers of buyers and high offers of sellers. Where the real price is (the mid-market rate) where real transactions take place.

All that to say, it doesn't matter if 100 people say manastone is only worth 50-80k (right now) -- plenty of these people on the forums -- and it doesn't matter if 100 people say it's worth 500k (right now.) The real price is where the transaction takes place in the middle. My argument here is not about the real price of The Manastone at this point in time. I am simply showing how to help someone calculate it's worth by comparing the context of camping a manastone vs camping plat/rare items.

As this truth sets in and time ticks on we will see the true value of the manastone reflected in the pricing.

But you want 200k for a manastone, not 60 hours. If we assume that the buyer makes plat at 1k/hour then they will need to spend 534 days, or nearly 1.5 years of playing 3 cash making hours per day before they make up for the lost money. All 1.5 years spent in classic zones.

That is 1.5 years of playing 3 hours per day, 7 days a week, no holidays, not farming Kunark items, not farming Velious items (since manastone doesn't help there).

Not bad.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cd288, don't worry. I will sell The Manastone for a minimum of 200K when the time is right.

Of course you will. The server economy will always continue to inflate and that's just the way it goes. That's very different from trying to artificially drive up the price prior to that.

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by kjs86z [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No idea when Kunark is supposed to drop but if you have plans on acquiring a manastone still, you better get in line soon and plan on playing a LOT of everquest to make it "worthwhile." And at the end of the day, was it really worth it?

This is an important point. Any calculations on time gained/maximized efficiency have to be taken in concert with the release of Kunark. As has been said, in order to get a truly accurate accounting of the item’s return on investment, it’ll need to be used to maximum efficiency in just the next few months. When Kunark is released, the items value SHOULD drop precipitously, since finding groups in old world zones will be much more difficult. At least for 50+, which one would assume would be the level of person able to actually buy the stone. Now say if someone creates an alt and is able to scrounge up people to group with in Classic zones, then the calculation can continue. But once they step foot on Kunark, or even the Planes, that investment return freezes immediately.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best time to buy a manastone is long past. Next best time to buy one theoretically will be when green 2.0 is released and as early into the server's life cycle as possible.

I completely agree with this. People that acquired their Manastone early in the life of the server stood the best chance of getting the requisite rate of return from buying. As it is now, with only a few months to go till Kunark, I think it’s highly unlikely people will see a return on buying a stone, or an efficiency return on the time invested for those camping the stone to actually use it.