Has anyone documented the maximum damage caps per class?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by radbeard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a bunch of people here saying that +ATK doesn't increase their max damage, and that is what all the formulas I can find say. I think the simplest explanation here is that +ATK doesn't increase your max damage.

You seem to be assuming that isn't true. And maybe you are correct, but if so I think you should do some intentional parses to compare.

Get to max str with zero + ATK items and parse a bit to establish a max attack and then do it again with avatar and/or with +ATK items. And then post the results so we can see exactly what is happening. If it does go up with + ATK items on then try it with +10, +20, +30, +40 gear to see if it stops going up.

The next thing to do would be to get well below max str and only use +ATK items and compare the same low strength with and w/o + ATK items. This would side-step your theory about a damage cap since the low str would keep you under it.

I already did intentional parses. I had 225 STR and +0 ATK vs 225 STR and +40ish ATK. Without ATK I hit for up to 124, with +40ish ATK I hit for up to 132. This is with a 25 damage weapon https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn . I haven't hit the damage cap yet with my Shadowknight, only my Shaman.

[Toxigen]

can we get a tldr on this

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already did intentional parses. I had 225 STR and +0 ATK vs 225 STR and +40ish ATK. Without ATK I hit for up to 124, with +40ish ATK I hit for up to 132. This is with a 25 damage weapon https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn . I haven't hit the damage cap yet with my Shadowknight, only my Shaman.

that is like an 8% increase in damage, ignoring damage bonus... is every 5 attack just giving +1% to max random damage?!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that is like an 8% increase in damage, ignoring damage bonus... is every 5 attack just giving +1% to max random damage?!

I looked into the EQEMU code, and it seems like +ATK just gets added to Offense.

With the formula Weapon Damage * (([Offense Skill] + [STR]) / 100):
25 * (([220 + 0] + [225]) / 100) = 111 + 11 = 122.
25 * (([220 + 40] + [225]) / 100) = 121 + 11 = 132.

This seems to add up more or less.

[7thGate]

Its kind of interesting, the Damage Table appears to be where this might be adding in as far as I can tell. Here's where it is in EqEmu: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...tack.cpp#L4690

If I am reading this correctly, its taking your offense and subtracting some number from the table, then dividing that by 2, then doing a random between 0 and that number to add as an extra % to your damage.

So here's an example level 60 damage table entry:

{ 285, 23, 65 }, // 60

Those numbers are Max Extra, Chance, Minusfactor.

There's a 23% chance it just doesn't do anything on a hit. Then subtracts 65 from offense, which has GetAtk as a component, divides by 2, does a random between 0 and (offense - 65)/2 and adds to 100, compares to 285 to see which is smaller, then uses that.

I think based on that, this would lead to larger max hits if (offense - 65)/2 +100 is smaller than 285, because then you can't cap.

offense appears to be skill+atk+(2 * str-150)/3. At 225 Str, on an sk with a 225 skill cap, that would be (225 + (225*2 -150)/3 - 65)/2 + 100, which is 230, so under 285. Up to 110 additional atk would increase max damage. For a Rogue with Epic and 255 Str, it would be (250+(255*2-150)/3+40-65)/2 + 100, which is at 272.5, so up to 25 ATK would increase max damage. Rogues getting Raid buffed will usually have VoG and some combination of Aura of Battle/Grim Aura/Strength of Nature/Call of the Predator, which would make something like Avatar or Bard +ATK songs not add any additional max damage.

Additional +ATK would still impact the roll20 function, which was applied before the damage table as a multiplier between 0.1 and 2.0 that was dependent on the relative offense vs. ac rolls.

I bet this effect is why there are a lot of claims +ATK doesn't add to max damage but only skews the distribution, but you're seeing a +max damage boost from it.

What is really interesting to me is that the actual Offense skill doesn't seem to be used as part of the damage calc directly, just as part of the compute_tohit here: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...ttack.cpp#L149

Whew, all this stuff is complicated. I wonder how much P99 changed it as well?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its kind of interesting, the Damage Table appears to be where this might be adding in as far as I can tell. Here's where it is in EqEmu: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...tack.cpp#L4690

If I am reading this correctly, its taking your offense and subtracting some number from the table, then dividing that by 2, then doing a random between 0 and that number to add as an extra % to your damage.

So here's an example level 60 damage table entry:

{ 285, 23, 65 }, // 60

Those numbers are Max Extra, Chance, Minusfactor.

There's a 23% chance it just doesn't do anything on a hit. Then subtracts 65 from offense, which has GetAtk as a component, divides by 2, does a random between 0 and (offense - 65)/2 and adds to 100, compares to 285 to see which is smaller, then uses that.

I think based on that, this would lead to larger max hits if (offense - 65)/2 +100 is smaller than 285, because then you can't cap.

offense appears to be skill+atk+(2 * str-150)/3. At 225 Str, on an sk with a 225 skill cap, that would be (225 + (225*2 -150)/3 - 65)/2 + 100, which is 230, so under 285. Up to 110 additional atk would increase max damage. For a Rogue with Epic and 255 Str, it would be (250+(255*2-150)/3+40-65)/2 + 100, which is at 272.5, so up to 25 ATK would increase max damage. Rogues getting Raid buffed will usually have VoG and some combination of Aura of Battle/Grim Aura/Strength of Nature/Call of the Predator, which would make something like Avatar or Bard +ATK songs not add any additional max damage.

Additional +ATK would still impact the roll20 function, which was applied before the damage table as a multiplier between 0.1 and 2.0 that was dependent on the relative offense vs. ac rolls.

I bet this effect is why there are a lot of claims +ATK doesn't add to max damage but only skews the distribution, but you're seeing a +max damage boost from it.

What is really interesting to me is that the actual Offense skill doesn't seem to be used as part of the damage calc directly, just as part of the compute_tohit here: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...ttack.cpp#L149

Whew, all this stuff is complicated. I wonder how much P99 changed it as well?

Yeah I think that is a good overview of the code!

My SK is 58, so he would be using this table entry: { 265 Max Extra, 28 Chance, 70 Minusfactor.}

I had slightly off numbers for my STR and Offense. He has 226 STR and 224 Offense, and +48 ATK with 2 AoB items, Firefist, and Grim Aura. He is using https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn , which has 25 Damage on it, and is a 1h weapon.

Based on the EQEMU formula my max damage would be as follows:

1. Calculate the "Offense" variable, which isn't simply the offense skill: 224 Offense Skill + ((2 * 226 Strength - 150) / 3) + 48 ATK = 372.6666666666667.

2. Apply the damage table:
2a. 372.6666666666667 "Offense" - 70 Minusfactor = 302.6666666666667
2b. (302.6666666666667 / 2) + 100 = 251.3333333333334 "extra percent damage"
2c. ((25 Weapon Damage * 2) * 251.3333333333334) / 100 = 125.6666666666667 damage. Add the 11 main hand weapon bonus for a total of 136 max damage. I have only hit for 132 so far, but maybe I could go a bit higher, or the calculation is a tad different on P99.

The one assumption I am making is they are multiplying weapon damage by 2 on step 2c. I can't actually find that anywhere in the code, but it is common knowledge that weapon damage is multiplied by 2.

Either that is P99 specific, or somewhere in the code I can't find. The function that pulls weapon damage on EQEMU seems to just pull the raw damage value. Maybe the damage gets doubled somewhere else a bit further along the function chain.

[Encroaching Death]

They should teach Math using MMORPG mix/max theory in schools.

I'd probably be in Harvard if they did that with me

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Encroaching Death [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They should teach Math using MMORPG mix/max theory in schools.

I'd probably be in Harvard if they did that with me

Lol I agree, teaching people how to make games would probably be a lot more fun than a traditional math class.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I think that is a good overview of the code!

My SK is 58, so he would be using this table entry: { 265 Max Extra, 28 Chance, 70 Minusfactor.}

I had slightly off numbers for my STR and Offense. He has 226 STR and 224 Offense, and +48 ATK with 2 AoB items, Firefist, and Grim Aura. He is using https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn , which has 25 Damage on it, and is a 1h weapon.

Based on the EQEMU formula my max damage would be as follows:

1. Calculate the "Offense" variable, which isn't simply the offense skill: 224 Offense Skill + ((2 * 226 Strength - 150) / 3) + 48 ATK = 372.6666666666667.

2. Apply the damage table:
2a. 372.6666666666667 "Offense" - 70 Minusfactor = 302.6666666666667
2b. (302.6666666666667 / 2) + 100 = 251.3333333333334 "extra percent damage"
2c. ((25 Weapon Damage * 2) * 251.3333333333334) / 100 = 125.6666666666667 damage. Add the 11 main hand weapon bonus for a total of 136 max damage. I have only hit for 132 so far, but maybe I could go a bit higher, or the calculation is a tad different on P99.

The one assumption I am making is they are multiplying weapon damage by 2 on step 2c. I can't actually find that anywhere in the code, but it is common knowledge that weapon damage is multiplied by 2.

Either that is P99 specific, or somewhere in the code I can't find. The function that pulls weapon damage on EQEMU seems to just pull the raw damage value. Maybe the damage gets doubled somewhere else a bit further along the function chain.

This formula works out perfectly for the high str/attack rogue with a 15 damage weapon*. It also works out perfectly for all of your shaman's avatar numbers**. (Edit: this might work for your shaman's non-avatar numbers too but I'm not sure on your exact +atk and exact str.)

To me these numbers suggest that the October 2001 patch to bring (edit: pally/sk/bard) onto the (edit: high) damage table has not been applied to p1999. https://web.archive.org/web/20011113...ML/000346.html

* Eqemu damage table of { 285, 23, 65 }
** Eqemu damage table of { 210, 49, 105 }

[7thGate]

Either that is P99 specific, or somewhere in the code I can't find. The function that pulls weapon damage on EQEMU seems to just pull the raw damage value. Maybe the damage gets doubled somewhere else a bit further along the function chain.

I believe this comes in the Roll20 function. Its called as part of MeleeMitigation here: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...ttack.cpp#L960

RollD20 is selecting one of these values to multiply the damage by: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...ttack.cpp#L915 , based on the difference between an offense roll and an AC roll. This is how additional +ATK increases average damage even if it doesn't increase max damage.

MeleeMitigation is called here, right before the damage table is applied: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...tack.cpp#L1348