sk starting points

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Notice how DSM keeps shifting the goal posts.

You have yet to show one goalpost moved. I have been consistent. You don't understand what this means.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He says that STR is useless because the extra DPS is useless, then if you point out that STR also brings irrefutable out of combat benefits via increased loot/coin carrying capacity, he says that's irrelevant because his massively twinked Monk gained one level per hour (try to follow that logic in a thread about SKs).

I've leveled two melee characters, one recently. I didn't need 200+ STR to carry loot and coin. I picked up everything on my Monk too. I am not sure why this is so difficult to believe or understand.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is nothing approaching a rational, honest argument from him. He just endlessly shifts the goalposts and prattles on about how his points are backed by evidence, but has yet to present a shred of evidence that INT actually provides tangible benefits in-game. All experienced players understand that max mana pool (especially on a hybrid) is relatively unimportant, because your mana will constantly be hovering around the middle of the bar anyway. The benefits of STR, however marginal they be, thus necessarily outweigh INT, given that while STR's minor benefits are self-evident and irrefutable, INT's benefits cannot even be properly measured or accounted for.

I am using evidence and in game formulas, the definition of rational and honest. The only dishonestly here is your attempt to discredit me by claiming I moved goalposts that you made up.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, please provide actual evidence that extra INT returns REAL VALUE to the player in-game. You have done nothing but make baseless claims about how being able to cast an extra FD might save your life. But this is entirely theoretical. I can just as easily say that extra STR will theoretically save your life if you were in a close fight and already OOM and managed to kill the mob you were fighting with 10 hp left, because your damage was just a little higher thanks to added STR. But both of these scenarios are EXTREME edge cases that almost never happen to good players, which means that the minor but clear and irrefutable benefits of STR necessarily eclipse the entirely theoretical benefits of INT.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300 I've already provided plenty of evidence to show why INT is the best choice, and why STR isn't as good as you are claiming.

It is your turn to provide evidence. You cannot even show which goalposts have been moved, so I am not holding my breath.

[Vexenu]

Goalpost 1 moved: Shifting between talking about how STR contribution to DPS is negligible and unneeded while ignoring irrefutable STR benefits to loot/coin carrying capacity.

Goalpost 2 moved: Repeatedly bringing up your twink Monk in a discussion about an Iksar SK.

Goalpost 3 moved: Repeatedly claiming that you have evidence that INT provides benefits while providing nothing of the sort but theoretical claims about getting off an extra FD. The post you linked contains zero evidence that INT provides value, it's just an argument that STR is easy to cap.

You are a pathologically dishonest individual.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Goalpost 1 moved: Shifting between talking about how STR contribution to DPS is negligible and unneeded while ignoring irrefutable STR benefits to loot/coin carrying capacity.

I mentioned carry capacity and DPS plenty of times. You can just look back through the thread. I am not required to mention carry capacity every time someone talks about DPS only. I have said multiple times you do not need 200+ STR to carry stuff, and I myself have leveled 2 melee characters under 200 STR the vast majority of their life cycle. I know this from practical experience. I killed guards with FS weapons a lot as well, so it isn't like I am carrying light stuff.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Goalpost 2 moved: Repeatedly bringing up your twink Monk in a discussion about an Iksar SK.

There is no goalpost here. I am providing a practical example that I have leveled a melee character with 140 STR recently, and the lower STR did not affect my leveling/selling. One level an hour is already very fast. OP didn't specify you cannot use analogies. OP did not say he would not twink his character, either.

If you understand the formula, you would know that there is no difference in how the STR is used in the formula for both SK's and Monks. Remember we are talking about how STR affects DPS. There may be a slight difference in Offense Skill, but that is not going to skew the data in a serious manner as far as I can tell, unless you can show otherwise.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Goalpost 3 moved: Repeatedly claiming that you have evidence that INT provides benefits while providing nothing of the sort but theoretical claims about getting off an extra FD. The post you linked contains zero evidence that INT provides value, it's just an argument that STR is easy to cap.

You are a pathologically dishonest individual.

What are you talking about? How is providing evidence that INT provides value a goalpost? This is just pure nonsense. It is also a fact that more max mana means you can cast more spells. This is simple math.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300 - This has way more factual evidence than everything you have said in this entire thread. Statistical realities of stat distribution is real evidence of INT being better than STR for starting stats, regardless of whether you believe it or not. STR is much easier to cap, and thus it will benefit you for less time.

Please learn what "moving the goalposts" means, so you can apply it properly next time.

I am using real data, statistics, and game formulas to make my point. The only dishonestly here is you thinking evidence, statistics, and game formulas are dishonest lol.

[Ripqozko]

DSM is the ben shapiro of p99, yikes

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with trolling often is you ruin all credibility you have, and there is no reason for anybody to believe you. You did this to yourself, and now you are reaping the rewards.

This isnt true. Just because someone is sarcastic on the boards doesnt mean they dont have a wealth of knowledge and operate at a very high level in the game. Also, just because they are picking on someone one moment doesnt mean they aren't speaking truth the other.

Ad hominem is a logical fallacy. You discredit the person over the logic to defeat it (or drown it with noise). If you are intellectually honest and the biggest troll posts something actually inciteful the best thing you can do is stop, think, and pay credit where credit is due. That's how you can actually earn respect from others during the moment.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isnt true. Just because someone is sarcastic on the boards doesnt mean they dont have a wealth of knowledge and operate at a very high level in the game. Also, just because they are picking on someone one moment doesnt mean they aren't speaking truth the other.

Ad hominem is a logical fallacy. You discredit the person over the logic to defeat it (or drown it with noise). If you are intellectually honest and the biggest troll posts something actually inciteful the best thing you can do is stop, think, and pay credit where credit is due. That's how you can actually earn respect from others during the moment.

It is true. Constantly lying about other posters as a trolling tactic ruins your credibility. Posters like Troxx, Toxigen, and Ripqozko have lied about myself and other posters on many occasions.

Why should anybody believe a liar?

You are basically giving trolls the benefit of the doubt when they are posting silly gifs and easy to disprove lies.

It is pretty obvious you have a double standard, where you are willing to believe known liars for unknown reasons.

You should be more skeptical of them, and less skeptical of posters who provide actual evidence to back up their claims.

Regardless of how "high level" you think they are, that does not mean they are correct just because they say so.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is true. Constantly lying about other posters as a trolling tactic ruins your credibility. Posters like Troxx, Toxigen, and Ripqozko have lied about myself and other posters on many occasions.

Why should anybody believe a liar?

Facts are objective. You of all people should know this, if you are what you say you are.

I can sniff out BS from facts. I've been around a bit.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Facts are objective. You of all people should know this, if you are what you say you are.

I can sniff out BS from facts. I've been around a bit.

Indeed. Facts are objective. Claiming "+20 STR via starting stats provides significant DPS during the leveling process" without evidence is an opinion, not a fact. It is like telling people +20 STA will give you 500 HP (this is not true). You can quantify the DPS value, as it is based on known mathematical formulas.

If the DPS boost from 20 STR is such a well known fact, it should be easy to prove. Thus far, the majority of posts in this thread are troll posts. This alone should set off your BS meter. They will do anything to avoid providing evidence for their claims. To me, this simply shows they know they may be wrong, and are unwilling to admit it.

I will be more than happy to admit I am wrong if someone can provide evidence.

[Snaggles]

Nobody said "significant" nor did anyone say "500 hps".
Ad hominem to straw man. Whatever it takes to win, I guess.

I will say your Magelo is about 500hps down but mainly due to bad decision making. Not 20 stats at the character create screen.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody said "significant" nor did anyone say "500 hps".
Ad hominem to straw man. Whatever it takes to win, I guess.

I will say your Magelo is about 500hps down but mainly due to bad decision making. Not 20 stats at the character create screen.

The 500 HP comment is an example, I didn't claim anybody said it. The DPS formula is a math formula, just like the STA formula. That is my point. There is an objective answer in both formulas, and providing the wrong answer is a problem in both cases. You shouldn't let people say 20 STA gives you 500 HP, nor should you let people inflate the DPS number for STR.

Plenty of people have claimed the DPS will be noticeable. They claimed you will level faster. If you are saying the DPS will not be noticeable and help you level faster, why bring it up as a factor when considering STR?