Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[Troxx]

I always found that knights shine in situations where the group is worse … especially paladins. For a groups that adequately cover all basic necessities and with players who actually know how to play and possess even a mediocre level of talent - the warrior shines.

Problems are gonna occur if you have a group geared warrior paired with raid geared melee … but assuming everyone is comparably geared the warrior should have no problems.

[WarpathEQ]

This thread is useless for 100% of the games content. This is P99, if you're still grouping to get exp you're taking whatever person is willing to stand in front of the mobs and take the hits.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is useless for 100% of the games content. This is P99, if you're still grouping to get exp you're taking whatever person is willing to stand in front of the mobs and take the hits.

Bringing this back to the top as a logical conclusion to this thread.

[enjchanter]

Yawn

[Naethyn]

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

Nobody is suggesting DPS is bad. I certainly didn't say that.

Diminishing returns means you only need a certain amount of DPS to clear content. Past that DPS threshold, you aren't getting more kills per hour. If you aren't getting more kills per hour, the extra DPS is mostly useless. With slows and heals, you generally don't need the extra DPS to specifically kill the mob before it kills you in group scenarios.

For your question about what content needs knight spells, a simple example is Fungi King. You aren't using a Warrior to pull Fungi King. You're using a Shadowknight or a Monk.

Are Knight spells absolutely necessary for most content? Of course not. Just like Warrior discs are not absolutely necessary for most content.

Utility > DPS in most group content. This is because the DPS threshold for most group content isn't very high, and P99 characters are already doing above average DPS for the content due to their above average gear. A level 30 P99 Knight is probably doing more DPS than a level 30 Warrior in level 30 appropriate gear, something like Crafted Armor and Minotaur Axes.

An easy way to think about it is just to look at Enchanters. They have enough utility and DPS by themselves to clear more content than any other class solo. A torched + hasted pet in Sebilis is doing something like 100 DPS. A group consisting of a Paladin/SK + Rogue + Shaman is already doing at least 150 DPS, and you have Lull/FD + Root + Slow + Heals. Could you swap the Paladin/SK for a Warrior to get an extra bit of DPS? Sure, but then you would lose Lull/FD and snap agro, which may slow down pulls or kills. The extra DPS from a Warrior is not happening in a complete vacuum, where you can ignore pull speed, pull quality, root breaks, CC in camp, snap agro, etc.

[Naethyn]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are Knight spells absolutely necessary for most content? Of course not. Just like Warrior discs are not absolutely necessary for most content..

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

You glossed over my entire post regarding DPS diminishing returns and utility. You'll need to re-read it. DPS also isn't absolutely necessary past a certain point. Nor is max HP and AC absolutely necessary past a certain point.

Tanks in general aren't absolutely necessary for most group content, which is why you see power trios like Monk/Enchanter/Shaman. I am not sure why you are trying to go down this reductive line of thinking.

[Troxx]

Naethyn already pulled your pants down.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I won't try to argue why dps is good, but If we are going to categorize content by warrior disc, I propose we do the same for knight spells. What content needs knight spells?

He posed that question. You admitted no content really needs knight spells.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if knight spells aren’t absolutely necessary and neither are warrior discs that only leaves dps and hp and the warrior does better at both.

Fun times.

Are we gonna morph this into another DSM thread?

Perhaps you should just schedule an appointment with your therapist to point out where, on the doll, the mean trolls touch you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Naethyn already pulled your pants down.



He posed that question. You admitted no content really needs knight spells.



Fun times.

Are we gonna morph this into another DSM thread?

Perhaps you should just schedule an appointment with your therapist to point out where, on the doll, the mean trolls touch you.

You have not been reading the thread if you think Naethyn "pulled my pants down". This is typical Troxx nonsense and lack of reading comprehension.

Naethyn made a logical mistake, because he only looked at the necessity for Warrior Discs and Knight Spells, while not looking at the necessity for Tank Mitigation and DPS. He ignored that to try and win the debate.

The problem is Tank Mitigation and Tank DPS are also unecessary for most content. This is why you see Enchanter/Cleric duos, Enchanter/Shaman/Monk trios, etc.

The only thing Naethyn showed was that tanks aren't necessary at all for most content, which is true.

When a group wants to use a tank, then you can compare which tanks are better for the job, by looking at their kit as a whole. Knight kits are better for most content, unless the content needs Warrior Discs. This is due to Warrior agro issues, and lack of utility on the Warrior's part. They can't fill multiple roles, which limits their usefulness in 2-4 player groups. DPS diminishing returns often limit the extra DPS a Warrior brings as well.