Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm of this opinion as well. I dont remember Chanters charming until Velious (and moreso Luclin and POP)

I also remember certain mobs (Ghouls specifically) always being HIGHLY resistant to everything magic-based

Well that settles it everyone! He remembers! Why didn’t you say so earlier? You could’ve saved us 60 pages of thread and the staff could’ve fixed things right away.

[bwe]

You seem upset

[Glasken]

I love this thread.

[Izmael]

People who remember stuff being resisted all the time probably simply were low level back then.

When you're a level 20 druid or some shit, yeah, your snare will be resisted a lot by level 17-19 mobs, on P99 or live.

Try doing CC on P99 at, say, MM CE camp when you're a level 28-29 enc, you'll get constantly resisted by blue mobs.

Anyway, this thread can probably be left to peacefully die now.

[douglas1999]

I don't think anyone has a problem with enchanters using charm to solo for xp if they can't find a group, the issue is that on this server it's used to trivialize content intended for entire groups or even full raids. Most people don't remember that from classic, and even if they do, it's not unreasonable to suggest it should possibly be looked into. The mechanics are certainly not *exactly* what was on live in 1999. We know this because the code here is modified stock eqemu code, which was largely guesswork. Given that it's definitely not right, it could only therefor be underpowered currently or overpowered currently, relative to how it was in classic. Considering how much high end content is completely trivialized by it on p99, I'd have to assume that it's certainly not *under* powered relative to classic. Either resist rates, or charm break rates will hopefully be adjusted.

[Cuktus]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone has a problem with enchanters using charm to solo for xp if they can't find a group, the issue is that on this server it's used to trivialize content intended for entire groups or even full raids. Most people don't remember that from classic, and even if they do, it's not unreasonable to suggest it should possibly be looked into. The mechanics are certainly not *exactly* what was on live in 1999. We know this because the code here is modified stock eqemu code, which was largely guesswork. Given that it's definitely not right, it could only therefor be underpowered currently or overpowered currently, relative to how it was in classic. Considering how much high end content is completely trivialized by it on p99, I'd have to assume that it's certainly not *under* powered relative to classic. Either resist rates, or charm break rates will hopefully be adjusted.

I'm sorry, what content? Are classes capable of charming soloing Vox? I think I would have heard about that. What zones are group only zones designed to never let a skilled solo player be in? What camps?

Less to you duglas and more to the thread as a whole, why will no one simply state what the maximum ability a solo character should have? Where is "You should not be able to handle camp X, mob Y, solo. Period." "A duo should not be able to handle camp z, or mobs j". I would love to have that discussion.

[vossiewulf]

We played from the first week through PoP... the one with PoK, I think that's it. I had a total of almost 200 levels with various characters and I can honestly say I do not remember grouping even once with an enchanter using a charmed pet. What I remember is the standard line was that it was just too dangerous, it would break randomly and always at the worst time so it was thanks, but no thanks.

The enchanters I played with who were good were good because they did CC really well making difficult camp-breaking much easier and their utilities made everything go faster. I don't remember an enchanter ever leading the dps of any group. I was almost always the group leader, so I paid close attention to who was doing what and how well.

And since an enchanter's ability to charm a high level mob to tank would have been useful like, always, I think that would be clearly remembered.

I don't play a chanter so it doesn't really bother me either way, but that's the way I remember it. And that's just as anecdotal as anything else in the end, but srsly.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by vossiewulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We played from the first week through PoP... the one with PoK, I think that's it. I had a total of almost 200 levels with various characters and I can honestly say I do not remember grouping even once with an enchanter using a charmed pet. What I remember is the standard line was that it was just too dangerous, it would break randomly and always at the worst time so it was thanks, but no thanks.

The enchanters I played with who were good were good because they did CC really well making difficult camp-breaking much easier and their utilities made everything go faster. I don't remember an enchanter ever leading the dps of any group. I was almost always the group leader, so I paid close attention to who was doing what and how well.

And since an enchanter's ability to charm a high level mob to tank would have been useful like, always, I think that would be clearly remembered.

I don't play a chanter so it doesn't really bother me either way, but that's the way I remember it. And that's just as anecdotal as anything else in the end, but srsly.

Alright staff he remembers. Get in here and change things based on random player’s memory from over a decade ago!

[vossiewulf]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alright staff he remembers. Get in here and change things based on random player’s memory from over a decade ago!

but that's the way I remember it. And that's just as anecdotal as anything else in the end, but srsly

Reading classes, you needs em. Anecdotal in the context of information verification uses the second definition of the word, "an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay". i.e., NOT actionable or deterministic.

However, when you have a body of anecdotal information that seems to be aligned, that suggests you may in fact have a problem and if it's important, then a search for actual hard data is strongly suggested.

And it really shouldn't be too hard to use the wayback machine to check the enchanter forums from back then and see if you can find dozens of threads about how Charm is totally awesome.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by vossiewulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but that's the way I remember it. And that's just as anecdotal as anything else in the end, but srsly

Reading classes, you needs em. Anecdotal in the context of information verification uses the second definition of the word, "an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay". i.e., NOT actionable or deterministic.

However, when you have a body of anecdotal information that seems to be aligned, that suggests you may in fact have a problem and if it's important, then a search for actual hard data is strongly suggested.

And it really shouldn't be too hard to use the wayback machine to check the enchanter forums from back then and see if you can find dozens of threads about how Charm is totally awesome.

Sounds like you must be pretty late to the party here. The whole history of this thread is as follows:

- Someone says the current mechanics aren’t classic
- People ask for evidence
- Other people reply that evidence can’t be found but they KNOW and REMEMBER that the P99 mechanics aren’t accurate compared to the mechanics on live
- The people who asked for evidence say well nothing is likely to change unless you can provide evidence
- People with apparent perfect memory about a video game from 20 years ago say that even if the mechanics are currently accurate, that since not nearly as many people rolled Enchanters (due to lack of knowledge and/or years of perfecting strategies) on live, that we should arbitrarily nerf the class just to discourage people from playing it so that we reflect the number of Enchanters on live.

So to your point, no evidence about things being inaccurate has been able to be located so now we’ve spent about 30 pages of people who came to a classic server whining that even if Enchanters are classic as currently reflected they should be nerfed anyway because it’s not balanced versus other classes. Hope I saved you 60 pages of reading since your point has already been addressed and refuted.