Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Danth]

Going back to the discussion a few pages ago about how most players like offense: The actual group the original poster asked for did take a shaman--but in place of a cleric. Then they went with enchanter/necromancer/necromancer, dual necros mostly because they really like the combination of damage with a pause button. Notice what they didn't pick? The shaman actually did win here, and because of its multi-role nature, though for a somewhat different reason than the main course of discussion has debated.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Going back to the discussion a few pages ago about how most players like offense: The actual group the original poster asked for did take a shaman--but in place of a cleric. Then they went with enchanter/necromancer/necromancer, dual necros mostly because they really like the combination of damage with a pause button. Notice what they didn't pick? The shaman actually did win here, and because of its multi-role nature, though for a somewhat different reason than the main course of discussion has debated.

Danth

Great point.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you need more DPS, bring an Enchanter. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you need more safety, bring a Shaman. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you want something in the middle, a Shaman offers more on average than a Mage. The DPS gap between the two is not large, and Shamans simply have a much broader toolkit.

The reason why redundancy is good is because spell casters can only cast 1 spell at a time. Having a Shaman means you can have him Slow instead of the Enchanters. You can have two people getting healed at once instead of just one person at a time, etc. That is not a trivial advantage hehe, and can even help with your DPS because you can cast more spells in the same time period.

If your Shaman is healing, your Cleric can cast https://wiki.project1999.com/Reckoning which is basically the same DPS as Shock of Steel. It isn't like having two healers adds nothing to the group DPS wise.

The point is that the more charms you have active, the more liable it is to blow up in your face. We all know this.

So the hypothetical 4th pick is not to increase the safety of the number of charms, which may be only one if the 2nd enchanter is dropping a charm to help with charm breaks, but to increase the efficiency of this group at grinding exp without hiccups.

In which case, the shaman provides absolutely nothing over the mage if we're trying to balance not only DPS, but safety and realism in this scenario.

Why can't you just admit that instead of stubbornly trying to overrate shaman and underrate mage? You're now seriously suggesting that the cleric animation with the shaman healing is more advantageous than the mage constantly throwing his pet in with the cleric healing both it and the charms?

I think you're a troll. I refuse to believe you can't see the logic in this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that the more charms you have active, the more liable it is to blow up in your face. We all know this.

So the hypothetical 4th pick is not to increase the safety of the number of charms, which may be only one if the 2nd enchanter is dropping a charm to help with charm breaks, but to increase the efficiency of this group at grinding exp without hiccups.

In which case, the shaman provides absolutely nothing over the mage if we're trying to balance not only DPS, but safety and realism in this scenario.

Why can't you just admit that instead of stubbornly trying to overrate shaman and underrate mage? You're now seriously suggesting that the cleric animation with the shaman healing is more advantageous than the mage constantly throwing his pet in with the cleric healing both it and the charms?

I think you're a troll. I refuse to believe you can't see the logic in this.

The 4th pick is indeed to increase safety. If you could handle 3x Enchanter pets, you would do that for the better DPS. Otherwise you are too afraid of the risk, which means you want to increase safety at the cost of DPS. The logic is quite simple. You are indeed correct people want a more consistent experience. That is what safety provides[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] More safety = less hiccups.

I am not trolling, you just keep saying "I am right and you are wrong", and think that is some kind of valid argument. Please provide evidence to support your claims. I have provided plenty of evidence.

My point about the Cleric was simply that if the Shaman is sharing the healing burden, the Cleric can DPS more. This means the DPS gap between a Mage and a Shaman shrinks further, because the Shaman is enabling the Cleric to increase their DPS. Remember a Shaman can recover mana much faster, so it is better for the Shaman to heal any time a Cleric doesn't have to, it increases efficiency.

[Troxx]

Yeah I wonder if he’ll even read the article linked. My guess is not.

Anyways, everything important that needed to be said was was in the first 5 pages. Page 19 I provided and some individual break down a few pages later

Everything else is just absolute insanity/hilarity/garbage … but this is true of any thread DSM gets emotionally invested in. It’s actually kinda sad (albeit funny)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I wonder if he’ll even read the article linked. My guess is not.

Anyways, everything important that needed to be said was was in the first 5 pages. Page 19 I provided and some individual break down a few pages later

Everything else is just absolute insanity/hilarity/garbage … but this is true of any thread DSM gets emotionally invested in. It’s actually kinda sad (albeit funny)

You continue to post silly nonsense since you can't provide evidence for your claims.

The evidence you did provide shows your Mage DPS lower than what you thought, both sets of parses lol. The other Mage who posted data was also showing pet DPS around 45-50.

Please come back with better data if you think your own data isn't good enough.

As Danth pointed out, Mage lost to Shaman in terms of what OP picked.

[Gloomlord]

The 4th pick is to get a class that balances out the group without gambling a wipe. You could argue a 3rd enchanter is more DPS with an extra charm, and if you stay lucky, that's correct.

So if we're arguing which is the better class to add here if you don't want to include a 3rd enchanter, why on earth is it shaman over mage? It doesn't make any sense. I think even a druid would bring more to this group than a shaman, if you're really throwing healing into the equation.

You are definitely trolling if you think I'm merely saying "I am right and you are wrong" here. People have already provided the maths in this thread, which you denied. We have access to the wiki, which tells us the abilities of each class.

What "evidence"? I call your bluff. Everyone has every reason here to be angry with you and your bizarre behaviour.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 4th pick is to get a class that balances out the group without gambling a wipe. You could argue a 3rd enchanter is more DPS with an extra charm, and if you stay lucky, that's correct.

So if we're arguing which is the better class to add here if you don't want to include a 3rd enchanter, why on earth is it shaman over mage? It doesn't make any sense. I think even a druid would bring more to this group than a shaman, if you're really throwing healing into the equation.

You are definitely trolling if you think I'm merely saying "I am right and you are wrong" here. People have already provided the maths in this thread, which you denied. We have access to the wiki, which tells us the abilities of each class.

What "evidence"? I call your bluff. Everyone has every reason here to be angry with you and your bizarre behaviour.

If you think a Druid would bring more than a Shaman, you have lost the debate. Unless you are in an area where the Druid can Charm, you gain very little from adding the Druid. Even the people who disagree with me aren't arguing for a Druid. It is pretty clear at this point you don't even know what a Shaman is capable of if you think a Druid would provide more on average.

The other people have NOT provided math hehe, that's the problem. The data they have provided doesn't help their case. You need to read the thread a bit more carefully.

You are simply saying "I am right and you are wrong", because you are just making a claim without evidence. I can do that too. If I say "Shamans are better and I don't need to provide evidence", we are back to square one. You said it, I said it, and we are at an impasse.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From page 3, post 30.

How clairvoyant was I?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was a self fulfilling prophecy. You are the one providing the bad arguments. This thread would have been over a long time ago if you could just look at the math objectively and realize Mage DPS isn't as much as you thought.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are simply saying "I am right and you are wrong", because you are just making a claim without evidence. I can do that too. If I say "Shamans are better and I don't need to provide evidence", we are back to square one. You said it, I said it, and we are at an impasse.

The difference is you are the singular dissenting opinion going up against the common sense opinion of just about every other person that knows anything about this game. Your opinion is not on equal footing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is you are the singular dissenting opinion going up against the common sense opinion of just about every other person that knows anything about this game. Your opinion is not on equal footing.

The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject. - Marcus Aurelius