OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Lammy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Winga, when you first started in these negotiation threads I thought perhaps you were a rational, free thinker. Now i'm just convinced that you're either A. a misinformed lemming or B. a retard.

TMO has plenty of raiding mains that still need their epics, as well as gear from open world raid mobs. That is first hand FACT, not assumption or hearsay.

I would be shocked if even 10% of TMO raiding mains still need their epics. For kicks, I went to the TMO page and sorted by name.

Aalamar: yes
Aalpha: yes
Alarti: yes
Alde: no idea
Ascention: yes
Atmas: yes
Baxter: yes
Benjaman: recruit with 9 dkp
Bialar: yes
Biggslick: yes
Bitie: rogue so he fucking better have one
Butchh: yes
Carrina: recruit
Catterine: only 95% sure but putting her down as yes
Cecily: yes
Chief: yes
Citizen: shaman, so . . yeah
Cyryllis: yes
Darkdeath: yes
Deathproof: yes

And after 20 names I got tired. 17/20 confirmed to have epics, and two of those remaining are recruits. And probably Alde (the 5%!) has one or at least some VP weapons. So I'm thinking that isn't so great for your argument there Fabben . . . and then I realized . . . I bet *you* don't have your epic! Cause Taken has been socking Inny hard lately and the earth staff is pretty rare. And now its obvious why you are taking the positions you do.

P.S. That being said, Winga's position is silly because it would never allow TMO to recruit anyone new.

[Lammy]

Sometimes i think you get carried away for the sake of arguing. Did you not read the portion of my post where it clearly states that I know first hand some people need epics? That would be referencing myself. I do not have an epic on my mage, and haven't found it necessary to gripe about it either in guild, in game, or publicly. Hats off to 'Taken' for their dedication on monopolizing inny.

I could name many mains still needing epics in our guild and my argument is more so in their defense than for me selfishly. I've come to terms with my mage epic happening with velious revamps, just like everyone else not willing to put forth the effort should be.

How about them apples Loraen? My TMO tagged main (and other mains) doesn't have an epic because its cockblocked by another guilds efforts and I'm still willing to advocate that it should be effort=reward.

Just for the record to discredit your statistics... alde does not wield his epic.

I love how the argument of 4th alt needing epics instantly transforms into now "well the majority of your mains have it." So the argument is still valid. Heh. Does tmo sell raid drops? Sure they do, because excess items are a result of farming to get the drops we do need. Unfotunately we don't get to pick what the dragon drops each time.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would be shocked if even 10% of TMO raiding mains still need their epics. For kicks, I went to the TMO page and sorted by name.

Aalamar: yes
Aalpha: yes
Alarti: yes
Alde: no idea
Ascention: yes
Atmas: yes
Baxter: yes
Benjaman: recruit with 9 dkp
Bialar: yes
Biggslick: yes
Bitie: rogue so he fucking better have one
Butchh: yes
Carrina: recruit
Catterine: only 95% sure but putting her down as yes
Cecily: yes
Chief: yes
Citizen: shaman, so . . yeah
Cyryllis: yes
Darkdeath: yes
Deathproof: yes

And after 20 names I got tired. 17/20 confirmed to have epics, and two of those remaining are recruits. And probably Alde (the 5%!) has one or at least some VP weapons. So I'm thinking that isn't so great for your argument there Fabben . . . and then I realized . . . I bet *you* don't have your epic! Cause Taken has been socking Inny hard lately and the earth staff is pretty rare. And now its obvious why you are taking the positions you do.

P.S. That being said, Winga's position is silly because it would never allow TMO to recruit anyone new.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I"ll be honest. It looks like Taken and BDA and whoever else are simply trying to squeeze more out of this situation because the GMs gave you the power to do so. Your right, raid suspension hurts the big guilds more. And yes, GMs want a unanimous agreement from all guilds.

Let's imagine that we weren't threatened with a raid suspension and this current proposal was posted. People would go fucking INSANE for it. Big guilds said they are willing to give up tons of targets every month, including 1/4th of the ones they want the most. Guilds that were previously getting nothing, can get multiple targets weekly. They can set up a rotation between themselves if they don't want to do any work. That's left up to them. And still allowed to compete with the top guilds if they choose to. Nothing even close to this has ever been on the table. It would be accepted without a second thought, there would be no holding out for MORE. Want some inside info? This agreement was drafted and posted on our boards for review a day before Sirken's threat. Our officers didn't come up with this because they had the threat of a suspension looming. They actually wanted to make the raid scene better. And you all shit on it like this, just because you can. Imo threatening the server was a mistake, and now this is all so messy and hateful when it doesn't need to be.

ur proposal woulda been a nice gesture if it didnt seem like a simple bone thrown at hungry dogs

we are trying to do something that the majority would like to see

the FE plan still requires u to shit up the raid scene and literally changes nothing besides a few more mobs for the bigger casual guilds

its not about giving BDA a couple Traks or Taken a Sev or two

its about making a change ... not throwing some mobs at us and saying " THERE! NOW YOU HAPPY?!?!!"

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ur proposal woulda been a nice gesture if it didnt seem like a simple bone thrown at hungry dogs

we are trying to do something that the majority would like to see

the FE plan still requires u to shit up the raid scene and literally changes nothing besides a few more mobs for the bigger casual guilds

its not about giving BDA a couple Traks or Taken a Sev or two

its about making a change ... not throwing some mobs at us and saying " THERE! NOW YOU HAPPY?!?!!"

So you'd have been happy if you didn't misinterpret this as charity?

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you'd have been happy if you didn't misinterpret this as charity?

/facepalm

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/facepalm

I'm sorry, the proposal is more than generous. I'm not going to restate things from my previous posts but this IS the compromise. On one extreme you have the top guilds dominating, on the other you have full rotation. We've done what was asked. This is as middle ground as it gets.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wanting more concessions than were proposed doesn't mean anyone is shitting on this proposal. It's not like hardcore raiders are giving up that much on an absolute scale, seeing as they already have killed all this shit 300 times and have alts decked in raid loot and still have a relative monopoly on VP.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wanting more concessions than were proposed doesn't mean anyone is shitting on this proposal. It's not like hardcore raiders are giving up that much on an absolute scale, seeing as they already have killed all this shit 300 times and have alts decked in raid loot and still have a relative monopoly on VP.

You're talking about TMO with this paragraph. FE/IB doesn't even have decked mains. MOST of these mobs we haven't even killed in the double digits, despite killing ourselves for months trying to. We have no monopoly on VP once this suspension ends. You can't make blanket statements like this.

And out of every guild on this server we're losing the most with this deal. Your right, TMO doesn't need anything anymore and they've farmed it all for years. The position of every other guild on the server only improves with this proposal. Essentially, we are stuck competing with TMO just as hard as we always have, except with half the opportunities to do so.

[Seltius]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wanting more concessions than were proposed doesn't mean anyone is shitting on this proposal. It's not like hardcore raiders are giving up that much on an absolute scale, seeing as they already have killed all this shit 300 times and have alts decked in raid loot and still have a relative monopoly on VP.

I don't know where you get all your information about alts. I would love to get some gear on my alts that I will never see unless I retire my main or put them in another raiding guild.

In the end if the raid scene were a pie then no one is happy with the slice they have been getting. Threads like this are offering a larger slice but unless the pie is cut in half or the guilds that feel they were being mistreated are getting the larger or largest slice they will refuse to allow the pie to be cut at all. I figure everyone loves pie so it was a safe analogy. I once ate at a place called Perfect Pies and they had an amazing assortment of pies it was great a pie for everyone.

[Tuljin]

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