sk starting points

[Troxx]

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[Troxx]

Let’s do the numbers again.

40 delay weapon

No haste = 150 swings in 10 minutes
34% haste = 201 swings in 10 mins
41% haste = 211.5 swings in 10 minutes

It’s 1.5 swings more per 10 minutes per 1% haste for the first 34%
It is 1.5 swings more per 10 minutes per 1% haste for the next 7% …

201/211.5 = 0.9503 … or 4.07 % more damage for 7% more haste (actually less since double attack is not 100% for a knight). Think more like … I dunno … 3.5% more because you have 7% more haste.

How can you expect us to take you seriously when you fail at shit so absolutely basic.
4-5% more damage is literally (ie mathematically) like having 8-10% more haste.

The emperor has no clothes.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that more DPS can save you a bit more HP/Mana per kill. However, it is not wise to fight a mob that is going to get you down to 10% life and/or mana on average. You generally fight mobs that are already easy enough to where a few seconds of fighting either way is not going to put you in danger.

If 5 extra seconds of fighting is extremely dangerous, that probably means you are fighting a mob that is too difficult to begin with. The difference between 20 DPS and 21 DPS on Travis Two Tone is 2 seconds.



I also already showed you what the maximum bonus from the extra DPS would give you. If you have 20 DPS, you are getting a 0.8 DPS increase from the 4% boost. Assuming you are auto attacking non-stop for an hour straight, you will get 3600 x 0.8 = 2880 extra damage per hour. Absolute best results are going to be 3 kills per hour when fighting mobs with similar stats as Travis Two Tone, who basically has 900 HP. You would agree that it is not normal to be auto attacking for an hour straight, so the reality is you are getting less than 3 kills per hour. It is probably more like 1-2 kills per hour, assuming you are XPing in a highly efficient manner. This really isn't going to be noticeable for most players.

I have also shown you examples of where you get 0 kills per hour, because respawn rates are a real factor in the game. They are not artificial. Different camps have different DPS thresholds that result in diminishing returns.

By only looking at kills per hour for a static spawn you're, again, ignoring the implications for sustain in the other 99% of EQ content.

You are cherry-picking only the scenarios where the usefulness of DPS is more marginal, but in all of those scenarios, INT is completely useless. So it really doesn't help your point. While ignoring the other 95% of the game where 5% difference in DPS is huge. Not only are you unable to see the forest for the trees, you can't even see the fucking trees.

"Hey guys, I only kill Travis Two-Tone a little bit faster, therefore strength useless"

[Jimjam]

I don't understand what we’re talking about haste for and how it relates to starting stats?

Can someone catch me up on that thread of the discussion?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let’s do the numbers again.

40 delay weapon

No haste = 150 swings in 10 minutes
34% haste = 201 swings in 10 mins
41% haste = 211.5 swings in 10 minutes

It’s 1.5 swings more per 10 minutes per 1% haste for the first 34%
It is 1.5 swings more per 10 minutes for the next 7% …


How can you expect us to take you seriously when you fail at shit so absolutely basic.

The emperor has no clothes.

I am not sure why you think agreeing with me is proving me wrong.

At 100% haste, a 40 delay weapon is reduced to 20 delay.

40 / 1.34 = 29.8.
40 / 1.41 = 28.3.

The difference between 29.8 and 28.3 is 5%. The difference between 201 swings and 211 swings is 5%.

Congratulations on saying the same thing as me, but somehow thinking I was wrong.

You are incorrect about the 7% haste over 34% giving the same value as the first 7%, however. It takes 34% haste to get to 30 delay, and 64% haste to get to 20 delay. This means you lose value on haste after the first 34%. It takes 34% haste to reduce your delay by 10, and then it takes 64% haste to reduce your delay by another 10.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are cherry-picking only the scenarios where the usefulness of DPS is more marginal, but in all of those scenarios, INT is completely useless. So it really doesn't help your point. While ignoring the other 95% of the game where 5% difference in DPS is huge. Not only are you unable to see the forest for the trees, you can't even see the fucking trees.

You are cherry picking scenarios where INT is less useful.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand what we’re talking about haste for and how it relates to starting stats?

Can someone catch me up on that thread of the discussion?

Troxx randomly brought it up a few posts ago.

[Troxx]

Or a non eq example. Let’s dumb this shit down so it is even easier to understand.

Jimmy has 100 apples.
You give Jimmy 34% more apples than he a started with. Jimmy now has 134 apples.
You give Jimmy 41% more apples than he started with. Jimmy now has 141 apples

Those extra 7 apples are just a real and delicious as the other 34. They are worth just as much at market as the first 34 apples. If it takes one damn Apple to make a motherfucking Apple tart, he can make just as many apple tarts regardless of which apple you handed him first and proportional to the total number of extra percent apples you decided to give him above what he started with.

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or a non eq example. Let’s dumb this shit down so it is even easier to understand.

Jimmy has 100 apples.
You give Jimmy 34% more apples than he a started with. Jimmy now has 134 apples.
You give Jimmy 41% more apples than he started with. Jimmy now has 141 apples

Those extra 7 apples are just a real and delicious as the other 34. They are worth just as much at market as the first 34 apples. If it takes one damn Apple to make a motherfucking Apple tart, he can make just as many apple tarts regardless of which apple you handed him first and proportional to the total number of extra percent apples you decided to give him above what he started with.

You are missing the point entirely, because you are again too concerned about admitting you were wrong.

40 / 1.34 = 29.8. This means you need 34% haste to reduce your delay by 10 out of a possible 20.
40 / 1.68 = 23.8. This means the next 34% haste reduced your delay by 6.

That is the same amount of haste added, but the difference in how much you gained is less. This is not difficult.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you think agreeing with me is proving me wrong.

At 100% haste, a 40 delay weapon is reduced to 20 delay.

40 / 1.34 = 29.8.
40 / 1.41 = 28.3.

The difference between 29.8 and 28.3 is 5%. The difference between 201 swings and 211 swings is 5%.

Congratulations on saying the same thing as me, but somehow thinking I was wrong.

Dude your post is still there. I can still quote it:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When it comes to haste, the reason why going from 34%-41% haste is a small difference is because half of the possible delay reduction occurs in the first 34% haste. For example, at 34% haste a weapon with 40 delay is reduced to 30 delay. 20 delay is the lowest value you can get from haste on a 40 delay weapon. This means you need 64% haste to get the same gains you got with the first 34% haste.
.

I’ll admit that I might have been getting caught up with the part in bold. It seemed to imply some magical benefit from the first 34% meaning that an upgrade to 41% is somehow less meaningful. If you read your post literally you say:

“Half the possible delay occurs in the first 34%”. No that’s not how it works. 34% haste means you get 34% more swings per unit time.

Your statement was misleading at best … but realistically just wrong.

The point was that 4-5% damage is nothing to sneeze at. Most people consider upgrading 34 to 41% haste or an FBSS to RBB as being a BIG improvement. Yet here you are saying that a comparable 4-5% damage increase is somehow not a BIG improvement.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude your post is still there. I can still quote it:



I’ll admit that I might have been getting caught up with the part in bold. It seemed to imply some magical benefit from the first 34% meaning that an upgrade to 41% is somehow less meaningful. If you read your post literally you say:

“Half the possible delay occurs in the first 34%”. No that’s not how it works. 34% haste means you get 34% more swings per unit time.

Your statement was misleading at best … but realistically just wrong.

The point was that 4-5% damage is nothing to sneeze at. Most people consider upgrading 34 to 41% haste or an FBSS to RBB as being a BIG improvement. Yet here you are saying that a comparable 4-5% damage increase is somehow not a BIG improvement.

I apologize if my wording was confusing. I am saying the same thing in all of my posts, just slightly different variations in the hope that one sticks.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong about the delay calculations.

Again, the first 34% haste you get is reducing a 40 delay weapon to 30.

The next 34% haste you get (68% total) is reducing your delay from 30 to 24.

This means you are getting diminishing returns from haste above 34%. This math is really simple.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is the same amount of haste added, but the difference in how much you gained is less. This is not difficult.

Thank you for clarifying. I was concerned that I misunderstood what you wrote and was therefore off the mark. You have clarified that I did NOT misunderstand you and that you are indeed an idiot.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No haste: 40 = 40 = 4 seconds between melee rounds
34% haste: 40/1.34 = 29.8507 delay = 2.985 seconds between rounds
68% haste: 40/1.68 = 23.8095 delay = 2.38 seconds between rounds
100% haste: 40/2 = 20 delay = 2 seconds between rounds

Abetter way to think about it?

Swings rounds per 10 minutes:
No haste = 150
34% haste = 201
68% haste = 252
100% haste = 300

First 34% gave you 51 more attacks. The second 34% gives another 51 attacks. You get just as much value relative to no haste for each additional point of haste you have.

The returns on haste are linear from 0 to 100% with 100% giving you literally twice the melee rounds per unit time compared to 0% haste.