Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't walk it back to be honest. Someone simply pointed out that you could get a bit more DPS from clickies. It was a good point, and changes the equation a bit, but a Shaman can also get more DPS from clickies. My calculations for 80DPS vs. 70DPS weren't taking into account Shaman or Mage clickies. It wasn't a one sided shift.

Math-wise Mage and Shaman DPS doesn't have a vast gulf, like people have been trying to claim. The entire argument of bringing a Mage is Malo + Charm Break Safety + DPS. A Shaman has Malo + Charm Break Safety covered, and DPS wise the different isn't vast. A difference in 30 DPS isn't going to matter with two Charmed Enchanter pets. A Shaman is simply bringing a much broader toolkit to the table without a huge sacrifice in DPS.

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts. You started out saying that a Shaman can out-DPS a Mage, then you shifted to saying the Shaman is "close enough" DPS to the Mage, now you are saying that a Shaman can also be casting slow and Malo as well as spamming a JBB, while still putting out DPS comparable to a Mage. The entire basis of your "math" argument rested on the fact that a Shaman can output respectable DPS across multiple rooted mobs IF YOU DO NOTHING BUT CAST DOTS AND CANNI/TORPOR NONSTOP. And yet you continue to pile on all these other things the Shaman is supposedly doing at the same time. It's almost as if you are dishonest, or more probably just have an enormous intellectual blind spot in this argument as a consequence of your "special" psychology.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Mage's DPS is also going to be lower in a fight that is 20-30 seconds long

And here we see you don't even understand the concept of DPS, or at least how DPS works for a Mage compared to a Shaman. A Mage does not need his DoTs to ramp up over time the way a Shaman does with Epic, or with any DoT for that matter to get the full mana/HP value of the spell. The Mage pet is basically a chainsaw you aim at a mob and it does XXX damage every second it's attacking. It doesn't matter if it attacks the mob for 10 seconds or 1000 seconds. The DPS is the same because it always does XXX damage for every second its attacking (on average). And as long as the fight lasts long enough to get one clickie nuke from staff or boots, you are also getting the full DPS value from those items as well. And most importantly, all of that damage from the pet and the clickie nuke is MANA-FREE and can be sustained indefinitely with essentially zero effort besides two button clicks per mob. Meanwhile, you are apparently rooting, slowing, maloing, casting epic, JBB, Pox, Bane, Canni and Torpor all while maintaining DPS equivalent to a Mage who is using ZERO MANA. It's an asinine claim.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts. You started out saying that a Shaman can out-DPS a Mage, then you shifted to saying the Shaman is "close enough" DPS to the Mage, now you are saying that a Shaman can also be casting slow and Malo as well as spamming a JBB, while still putting out DPS comparable to a Mage. The entire basis of your "math" argument rested on the fact that a Shaman can output respectable DPS across multiple rooted mobs IF YOU DO NOTHING BUT CAST DOTS AND CANNI/TORPOR NONSTOP. And yet you continue to pile on all these other things the Shaman is supposedly doing at the same time. It's almost as if you are dishonest, or more probably just have an enormous intellectual blind spot in this argument as a consequence of your "special" psychology.



And here we see you don't even understand the concept of DPS, or at least how DPS works for a Mage compared to a Shaman. A Mage does not need his DoTs to ramp up over time the way a Shaman does with Epic, or with any DoT for that matter to get the full mana/HP value of the spell. The Mage pet is basically a chainsaw you aim at a mob and it does XXX damage every second it's attacking. It doesn't matter if it attacks the mob for 10 seconds or 1000 seconds. The DPS is the same because it always does XXX damage for every second its attacking (on average). And as long as the fight lasts long enough to get one clickie nuke from staff or boots, you are also getting the full DPS value from those items as well. And most importantly, all of that damage from the pet and the clickie nuke is MANA-FREE and can be sustained indefinitely with essentially zero effort besides two button clicks per mob. Meanwhile, you are apparently rooting, slowing, maloing, casting epic, JBB, Pox, Bane, Canni and Torpor all while maintaining DPS equivalent to a Mage who is using ZERO MANA. It's an asinine claim.

Just read my previous post (the one above yours). I have the data in it. You were replying a bit too late[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Sorry you're so mad.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts.

Oh I can pretty much promise you we’ll see more of that.

I have a 60 shaman. I can make and buff my pet to max too. I have a full spell kit. And I can promise you he will fail miserably trying … or he just won’t and will submit “alternate facts” to support his agenda.

I am clairvoyant. Watch and see.

I just want him to try. He’ll fail but knowing him he will “do math” and prove he is right.

We all know this already. Let’s help an autistic fella expand his mind though?

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not.



You are using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum to try and win the debate. I am sorry, but that doesn't work. It is a fallacy.

Provide evidence for your claims please, or admit defeat.

You are using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism to post a dumb opinion nobody else shares 200+ times. I'm sorry, but that doesn't work. It is autism.

Please get medication. I know you won't admit defeat no matter how wrong you are or what data anyone comes up with.

[Troxx]

You’re thinking concretely again ..

We should come up with a DSM bingo card set … or better yet a buzz word drinking game. Actually that’s a bad idea as given how often he posts and how often he says the same exact things we’d all be dead from alcohol poisoning in about 45-90 minutes depending on your tolerance.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re thinking concretely again ..

You are continuing to embarrass yourself. Again[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re thinking concretely again ..

We should come up with a DSM bingo card set … or better yet a buzz word drinking game. Actually that’s a bad idea as given how often he posts and how often he says the same exact things we’d all be dead from alcohol poisoning in about 45-90 minutes depending on your tolerance.

Honestly, I just wanted to bring in that autism is irrelevant to this discussion, and here I am making a mistake adding more fuel to the fire which is DSM's inane ramblings.

My apologies to you guys.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re thinking concretely again ..

We should come up with a DSM bingo card set … or better yet a buzz word drinking game. Actually that’s a bad idea as given how often he posts and how often he says the same exact things we’d all be dead from alcohol poisoning in about 45-90 minutes depending on your tolerance.

I like DSM. He can debate things to death which I love about him. I like debating myself. I think he puts a lot of thought into things and is quick to help others with a post.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like DSM. He can debate things to death which I love about him. I like debating myself. I think he puts a lot of thought into things and is quick to help others with a post.

Found the VQ guildy

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like DSM. He can debate things to death which I love about him. I like debating myself. I think he puts a lot of thought into things and is quick to help others with a post.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We have yet to seen you join a fast moving full group and do a few hours of fast paced fast killing grind to parse and show us how awesome shamans are at dps … only some napkin math and a log of you soloing a low level frog with your fancy pants dots that are worthless with the fights are 20-30sec long.

But by all means …

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Mage's DPS is also going to be lower in a fight that is 20-30 seconds long[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Boots_of_Bladecalling has a 17 second cast, so you are only getting off 1 per fight.

Your DS is also losing about half of it's DPS.

So a Mage fighting a Mob that lives for 30 seconds is doing 56 DPS from Pet + 7 DPS from DS + 20 DPS from https://wiki.project1999.com/Boots_of_Bladecalling (600 / 30). That is a total of 83 DPS.

A Shaman is going to do 2x Ice Strikes (1350 / 2) = 45 DPS, plus roughly 15 DPS from their pet for a total of 60 DPS.

You are looking at a difference of 23 DPS on average in a fight that has already been made 30 seconds long due to the 2x Enchanter pets, NOT the Mage lol.