Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

Ah … a walk down memory lane

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, we've already established that your appeals to "the math" are bullshit. I gave you the example of shotgunning a beer: just because you can drink a beer in five seconds that way does not mean you can extrapolate out and claim you can drink 720 beers per hour. It doesn't matter if you're spamming Canni and Torpor non-stop, with C2, bard song and your Ogre grandma's magical pair of mana-regenerating panties on your head. You are not going to out-DPS a Mage over the length of an average group. You aren't even going to come close. You're going to sit there root rotting mobs for over 800 mana a pop (you conveniently ignore root mana cost in your calc despite claiming you will kill four a time) while the Mage just has to refresh pet haste and DS every few minutes. He can just sit there spamming Burnt Wood Staff/Lord Bob boots for additional mana-free damage. He can do that all day long. Meanwhile you're blowing 800 mana per kill and claiming you can keep up the same kill rate. You're positively demented.

There's a reason literally no one has ever seen the following sentence uttered in the entire history of P1999: "Group looking for Shaman for DPS".

Page 23. Goalposts have moved. All actual commentary/debate worth having has been lost in the quagmire of hilarious claims about shaman DPS. If memory serves correctly it’s only gonna get weirder.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx is posting these things due to a number of points he cannot rebut. He wants to dodge by bloating the thread.

One point he cannot rebut is why he thinks pocket clerics aren't allowed. This doesn't make sense for a number of reasons:

1. OP did not say they were prohibited.
2. Pocket clerics are a common practice on P99 already.
3. If you claim OP meant that you can only play four main characters and nothing else, then that would exclude mules too. OP didn't say this either.
4. Why would a normal person take a thread who's only rule is "best four person all caster group", and stop using mules and pocket clerics when they've already used them in the past?

[Troxx]

Funny how shamans need pocket clerics but clerics do not need pocket shamans.

I’m up to page 27 and so far it’s getting spicy with literally everyone disagreeing with you. Danth took perhaps the most “you friendly” approach but even he had to put you in your place - and for the record he advocated for a 3rd ench or a necro - debating that shaman vs mage was a debate amongst inferior choices.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny how shamans need pocket clerics but clerics do not need pocket shamans.

See? He dodged again. The question wasn't "Do Shamans need Pocket Clerics?" or "Do Clerics need Pocket Shamans?"

The question is "Why are Pocket Clerics not allowed?"

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx has lost the debate and gone back to being a troll. Unfortunate.

Please note he is still dodging the question about naming a camp where a Cleric is better.

Troxx hasn't "lost the debate", stop repeating that nonsense over and over, 99% of the time you're the one who is wrong, but you just keep going on and on with spam, ignoring what has been said and creating some fake narrative, pretending you've won a discussion when someone no longer wastes energy replying to your bullshit.

Stop trying to talk about a "pocket Cleric", that's not the point of the thread and everyone doesn't have one.

Stop acting like "torpor tanking" is some kind of special thing over a Cleric. The 4th member of the party can already be the tank if we want both pets hitting from behind. Enchanters already have slow and the Cleric already has efficient healing. This isn't the best strategy all the time anyway, because of how difficult it can be for slow to land on some targets and because of how much more damage casters take compared to a charm pet. It's often better to have the charm pets tanking and C-heal them with a Cleric.

It's obvious there are camps that benefit from the pets tanking and having a Cleric to C-heal them (including something like running around PoM and farming as many cards as possible), stop trying to act like someone is dodging a question when you're posing idiotic/pedantic questions that are generally strawmans.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The OP confirmed that bards are out of scope

Who cares about the fuggin OP, they don't own the discussion. BARDS ARE CASTERS

I'm most interested in the universe where dial-a-port doesn't exist and a group is starting on a server together. Therefore, the "best" group is Enchanter + Enchanter + Druid + Cleric.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The question is "Why are Pocket Clerics not allowed?"

Best 4 person all caster/priest group

It is right in the title.

Why are you so bricked-up about wanting a pocket cleric? Perhaps it’s because shamans are gonna need a pocket cleric while Clerics don’t need or want a pocket shaman when grouped with 2x enchanters + a third caster?

Up to page 31 now. We have gotten to the point where you were challenged to join a fast paced, high dps xp group (of any composition) and show how you could sustain anything close to mage-level dps. If memory serves correctly- you never did. I would have then and still would bet good money you and your pet combined would fail to actually out out as much dps as the mage pet by itself, much less the mage’s nukes and DS.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See? He dodged again.
The question is "Why are Pocket Clerics not allowed?"

The question is also "Where is the evidence that supports DSM's tens/hundreds/thousands of posts claiming a Shaman can/does improve a group's DPS more than a non-Epic Mage by root rotting multiple mobs parallel to their group?"

Is DSM going to dodge again? Call me a troll? A combination?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx hasn't "lost the debate".

When you troll, you lose the debate. If Troxx was able to prove his points via logic and facts, he wouldn't need to do this.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't the best strategy all the time anyway, because of how difficult it can be for slow to land on some targets

Good thing Shamans have Malo to make this much easier.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm most interested in the universe where dial-a-port doesn't exist and a group is starting on a server together. Therefore, the "best" group is Enchanter + Enchanter + Druid + Cleric.

I would actually agree. If you had a blank server - no outside anything - and were limited to 4 characters only - all have to be casters.

This group would probably fare best and have the highest absolute quality of life. If you’re fine killing slower while still being a boss - sub in 1 ench for a necromancer. Early levels would blast by with fear kiting and you have all the backup utility, rez, corpse summon etc the necro brings along with a pet that can take some hits when charm breaks at higher levels. In the right area, 3 of 4 casters can charm.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would actually agree. If you had a blank server - no outside anything - and were limited to 4 characters only - all have to be casters.

This group would probably fare best and have the highest absolute quality of life. If you’re fine killing slower while still being a boss - sub in 1 ench for a necromancer.

You could make a pocket druid for ports too. A lot of dial-a-port druids are just that. Help the server early on. You have yet to answer the question of why pocket characters are not allowed.