Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Gloomlord]

Why exactly do we need to number crunch when we all possess the intelligence here to figure out that the mage pet alone is constantly pumping out more damage over 2 hours than even the best shaman can muster?

Shaman is completely irrelevant when you have a cleric and two enchanters. A mage is just very good reliable DPS that doesn't require attention, and the ability to nuke when needed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why exactly do we need to number crunch when we all possess the intelligence here to figure out that the mage pet alone is constantly pumping out more damage over 2 hours than even the best shaman can muster?

Shaman is completely irrelevant when you have a cleric and two enchanters. A mage is just very good reliable DPS that doesn't require attention, and the ability to nuke when needed.

It's really simple. It's very possible your experience is wrong. There are plenty of people in the world who do something for thousands of hours and don't end up learning much about the thing they spend thousands of hours on.

Besides, if that is the standard, I could just say "My experience says you are wrong", and we are back to square one.

Evidence will prove the truth, and we no longer need to rely on a he-said-she-said argument, which goes nowhere typically.

If you want more DPS, run 3x Enchanters and a Cleric. If you say "That's too risky due to charm breaks", then you admit you prefer safety over DPS lol. That means a Shaman will fill the safety role better, and the DPS loss between a Shaman and Mage isn't huge. It is a much better "in the middle" scenario.

[Gloomlord]

Best doesn't necessarily mean the most DPS.

Thing is: shaman is both worse DPS and worse group composition here. The healing and charm recovery is covered by the cleric, so what does shaman possibly bring to the table?

In this case, wouldn't the high safe DPS and nuking bring more to this group than the redundancy that is shaman?

And the people in the thread have covered why this is. It's time to admit checkmate here.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Best doesn't necessarily mean the most DPS.

Thing is: shaman is both worse DPS and worse group composition here. The healing and charm recovery is covered by the cleric, so what does shaman possibly bring to the table?

In this case, wouldn't the high safe DPS and nuking bring more to this group than the redundancy that is shaman?

And the people in the thread have covered why this is. It's time to admit checkmate here.

If you need more DPS, bring an Enchanter. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you need more safety, bring a Shaman. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you want something in the middle, a Shaman offers more on average than a Mage. The DPS gap between the two is not large, and Shamans simply have a much broader toolkit.

The reason why redundancy is good is because spell casters can only cast 1 spell at a time. Having a Shaman means you can have him Slow instead of the Enchanters. You can have two people getting healed at once instead of just one person at a time, etc. That is not a trivial advantage hehe, and can even help with your DPS because you can cast more spells in the same time period.

If your Shaman is healing, your Cleric can cast https://wiki.project1999.com/Reckoning which is basically the same DPS as Shock of Steel. It isn't like having two healers adds nothing to the group DPS wise.

[Danth]

Going back to the discussion a few pages ago about how most players like offense: The actual group the original poster asked for did take a shaman--but in place of a cleric. Then they went with enchanter/necromancer/necromancer, dual necros mostly because they really like the combination of damage with a pause button. Notice what they didn't pick? The shaman actually did win here, and because of its multi-role nature, though for a somewhat different reason than the main course of discussion has debated.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Going back to the discussion a few pages ago about how most players like offense: The actual group the original poster asked for did take a shaman--but in place of a cleric. Then they went with enchanter/necromancer/necromancer, dual necros mostly because they really like the combination of damage with a pause button. Notice what they didn't pick? The shaman actually did win here, and because of its multi-role nature, though for a somewhat different reason than the main course of discussion has debated.

Danth

Great point.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that you still miss the underlying sentiment and are interpreting the comment 100% literally …

Concrete thinker much?

https://www.healthline.com/health/co...nking#takeaway

It's like a textbook case lol. I know autism is a meme on these forums but there is 100% some legitimate cases floating around.

[Troxx]

Yeah I wonder if he’ll even read the article linked. My guess is not.

Anyways, everything important that needed to be said was was in the first 5 pages. Page 19 I provided and some individual break down a few pages later

Everything else is just absolute insanity/hilarity/garbage … but this is true of any thread DSM gets emotionally invested in. It’s actually kinda sad (albeit funny)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I wonder if he’ll even read the article linked. My guess is not.

Anyways, everything important that needed to be said was was in the first 5 pages. Page 19 I provided and some individual break down a few pages later

Everything else is just absolute insanity/hilarity/garbage … but this is true of any thread DSM gets emotionally invested in. It’s actually kinda sad (albeit funny)

You continue to post silly nonsense since you can't provide evidence for your claims.

The evidence you did provide shows your Mage DPS lower than what you thought, both sets of parses lol. The other Mage who posted data was also showing pet DPS around 45-50.

Please come back with better data if you think your own data isn't good enough.

As Danth pointed out, Mage lost to Shaman in terms of what OP picked.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you need more DPS, bring an Enchanter. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you need more safety, bring a Shaman. They will blow the Mage out of the water in that department.

If you want something in the middle, a Shaman offers more on average than a Mage. The DPS gap between the two is not large, and Shamans simply have a much broader toolkit.

The reason why redundancy is good is because spell casters can only cast 1 spell at a time. Having a Shaman means you can have him Slow instead of the Enchanters. You can have two people getting healed at once instead of just one person at a time, etc. That is not a trivial advantage hehe, and can even help with your DPS because you can cast more spells in the same time period.

If your Shaman is healing, your Cleric can cast https://wiki.project1999.com/Reckoning which is basically the same DPS as Shock of Steel. It isn't like having two healers adds nothing to the group DPS wise.

The point is that the more charms you have active, the more liable it is to blow up in your face. We all know this.

So the hypothetical 4th pick is not to increase the safety of the number of charms, which may be only one if the 2nd enchanter is dropping a charm to help with charm breaks, but to increase the efficiency of this group at grinding exp without hiccups.

In which case, the shaman provides absolutely nothing over the mage if we're trying to balance not only DPS, but safety and realism in this scenario.

Why can't you just admit that instead of stubbornly trying to overrate shaman and underrate mage? You're now seriously suggesting that the cleric animation with the shaman healing is more advantageous than the mage constantly throwing his pet in with the cleric healing both it and the charms?

I think you're a troll. I refuse to believe you can't see the logic in this.