If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Japan]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

did you see evolution, yes it happens in a matter of months in thousands of demonstrable cases

fixed. Evolution isn't some almost-invisible guiding hand that can only be observed over eons. It has very real immediate effects on your life, particularly with regards to disease states induced by constantly-evolving bacteria and virus. Don't give them an inch.

[Hauling]

Originally Posted by Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fixed. Evolution isn't some almost-invisible guiding hand that can only be observed over eons. It has very real immediate effects on your life, particularly with regards to disease states induced by constantly-evolving bacteria and virus. Don't give them an inch.

I concur.

[Henini]

Way to take something totally out of context!

Evolution of the human race from our primal ancestors. (which is what they were talking about)

yes, I know other things evolve at different rates. Generally speaking, the smaller the life form, the faster the evolution. blah blah blah. this isn't a pissing contest a who know more stuff.


Btw Japan, why did you come back here it was nice where your inflated ego wasn't around.

Unlike you, I was making a point, not trying to show to the world how smart I am.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lolll
such poor arguments.

crack his skull open you will find his brain. that's what science would prove easily if it experimented. and we have done so in the past, we know it's there, we don't need to open everyone's skulls to know if they have a brain or not.
fucking retard!

The point isn't that he doesn't actually have a brain, but if you're unable to see/touch/feel etc then the conclusion to draw based on science was that it didn't exist. When it's obviously working, it's obvious that he has a brain due to his body functioning and his ability to 'reason' Yes, you could crack his skull open and disprove the theory, you're right. But until they actually did that, then there was no proof of a 'brain' other than 'faith' that the brain was there. Go ahead and get mad, it's obvious you are.

did you see evolution, no it happens over millions of years, humans don't have that kind of life span, which is normal since we are talking evolution... it happens from generations to generations to generations ... ... .. and so on. we are still evolving as we speak.

So explain to me then how we're all evolving at exactly the same rate, and that there is no one in the world that is 80% human 20% primate? Why are there 0 primates that are 50/50 human/primate? Why don't primates talk? Generations to Generations or not, everyone would have to be at the exact same spot in the evolutionary process.

If you don't want to view it that way, then why aren't there humans that are more evolved, that have larger brains, that pass from generation to generation? Why is it we don't just breed the people with the highest IQs to create more people with high IQs? How do you explain someone with parents with average IQs, being measured in the genius range? Is that because evolution happened so quickly in this case, and then ceased happening all together?

we don't notice it, but if humans are still around in 500 000 years I can assure you they wont look exactly like we do now.
we didn't notice it, but with our brains (that no one can prove we have)

See, no one said we couldn't prove it, not a single time in that example did they say we couldn't ever prove it. Just based on the scientific method that the test for a brain failed, was the test a good one? Absolutely not, but that's the entire point, just because his method was flawed, his result was flawed, just as your method is flawed, thus your result is flawed.

we were able to dig up and examine and test (with science, not faith) fociles and preserved bodies and such.
did you ever see a real live dinosaur? no, did they exist? damn right they did.

can you be more retarded. I guess, you can believe in creationism.

I don't even understand how anyone with even high school education can believe in that shit, it's just ridiculous!

At this point, you're just mad, you really need to get over it. The fact that you can't prove evolution, no one can, no one has, thus it's still called the THEORY of evolution. You want to try to talk down to people, and belittle their minds, and act like they are stupid, because they believe in something you don't, or maybe it's just that they are more 'evolved' than you and you want to reject it.

You can chit chat, piss and moan, and whine all you want about how 'stupid' creationists are. It's not something you're capable of looking at even through your own scientific methods. God created science, God created reason, God is also not bound by time, and he's not finite.

Is God measurable through a thermometer? No, but it's obvious the difference in people who have a faith in God, and have God acting in their lives vs those who refuse to allow God to work in their lives.

Just because we haven't quantified it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like you can't see the wind, you can't see gravity, you can feel their effects, and we have found a way to quantify them, so you believe it. So, if a 'scientist' puts a number on how much God was in someone, based on their actions, and quantified it you'd then believe in God?

You want to have your cake and eat it too, doesn't really work that way. Every psychologist in the world can see what's going on here, and even those who aren't psychologists can observe what is basically the bully mentality that you're trying to bring here. Bullies try to push the smaller kids around, and prove how 'tough' they are by pointing out how weak someone else is, which in fact is just a way to mask their insecurities, and their weaknesses, which if looked into, just further exposes them.

You can be mad, and you can stay mad, or you can choose to go on and be happy. That choice is yours, no one here can mandate anything to you about your actions, but just know in the end, the true Christians, not the "Christians" in this thread, are people who really want to help you, and are people who genuinely care about your well being, spiritual and otherwise. You can reject that if you want, but it doesn't take the offer away, just as God's offer is still extended to you, and anyone else who will choose to allow Jesus to be their savior.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Slathar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this explains so much. hard work = dad paying for everything? loooool

you're a joke. have fun perpetuating the cycle of annoying, spoiled, entitled americans who only think of themselves.

I'm confused, because his Dad worked hard, saved up, and was able to give to his children he's the bad guy now? I understand some people have to work their way through school, and/or take out student loans (I know I did) but you're implying that because his Dad is either wealthy, or someone who placed a higher value on paying for his children's education and giving them a leg up on the future, is wrong in some way.

You mad because you're not an American?

Just because you have things doesn't mean you're selfish, his father, and his family could very well have given more money away than you or I made last year, we have no way of knowing that. Just because wealthy people have nice things, doesn't mean they aren't giving. I have friends who's parents are multi millionaires, they live in a nice home and drive nice cars, but they never have the attitude you do towards people. They are very giving, very generous people. Nothing wrong with having nice stuff.

Personally I have quite a few nice things, it's not because I'm rich, it's because I put my priority on something, save up, and buy it. I don't waste my time with credit cards, I'm a weirdo that actually pays off his debts and once he's out of debt works to stay that way. I too hope one day to be able to afford my children's education, and with enough discipline I will be able to do that. But it doesn't mean I don't think of others.

I really hope for your sake, that whatever is making you so mad, is something you can get over, because it's very off putting. No reason to be that mad.

[Hauling]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can chit chat, piss and moan, and whine all you want about how 'stupid' creationists are. It's not something you're capable of looking at even through your own scientific methods. God created science, God created reason, God is also not bound by time, and he's not finite.

Creationists aren't stupid, just mislead. God did not create science. Science is not a tangible thing, it's a method to find out how things work. It's about having an idea and testing it to see if it's right and then retesting it over and again to make sure prior results weren't just coincidence. There was no moment in history where we went from having no science to having science. Just like everything else, it evolved through trial and error.

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is God measurable through a thermometer? No, but it's obvious the difference in people who have a faith in God, and have God acting in their lives vs those who refuse to allow God to work in their lives.

What's the obvious difference? I'm willing to bet you can't look at any one person in a crowd and tell me what their beliefs are, except for the people who hand out fliers that say I'm going to burn in hell when I'm trying to see a baseball game.

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because we haven't quantified it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like you can't see the wind, you can't see gravity, you can feel their effects, and we have found a way to quantify them, so you believe it. So, if a 'scientist' puts a number on how much God was in someone, based on their actions, and quantified it you'd then believe in God?

We can feel wind and gravity's effects, that's how we know they exist. They can be measured in a repeatable, consistent way that every reasonable person can agree on, but I'm pretty sure I would have known they were there even if no one put a name on them. I cannot say that about god.

As far as your questions about why there aren't monkey human hybrids is because, in fact, there were. If you do a little reading on the subject you will find many, many missing links that have been around in the last half million years or so. Climate conditions, inter species relations and other factors have since eliminated them. Just as monkeys today fight with other monkeys, our ancestors fought with the other branches of the evolutionary chain for survival. And for your point about why there aren't people with higher IQ's, we are the people with higher IQ's and better social and communication skills that survived all of that.

And if you need further evidence of how this works, just look at the different races of people. It's no coincidence that a black man and a black woman have black babies nor a white man and a white woman have white babies. How many genocides of entire populations have there been, just in our recorded history?

[Slathar]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm confused, because his Dad worked hard, saved up, and was able to give to his children he's the bad guy now? I understand some people have to work their way through school, and/or take out student loans (I know I did) but you're implying that because his Dad is either wealthy, or someone who placed a higher value on paying for his children's education and giving them a leg up on the future, is wrong in some way.

You mad because you're not an American?

Just because you have things doesn't mean you're selfish, his father, and his family could very well have given more money away than you or I made last year, we have no way of knowing that. Just because wealthy people have nice things, doesn't mean they aren't giving. I have friends who's parents are multi millionaires, they live in a nice home and drive nice cars, but they never have the attitude you do towards people. They are very giving, very generous people. Nothing wrong with having nice stuff.

Personally I have quite a few nice things, it's not because I'm rich, it's because I put my priority on something, save up, and buy it. I don't waste my time with credit cards, I'm a weirdo that actually pays off his debts and once he's out of debt works to stay that way. I too hope one day to be able to afford my children's education, and with enough discipline I will be able to do that. But it doesn't mean I don't think of others.

I really hope for your sake, that whatever is making you so mad, is something you can get over, because it's very off putting. No reason to be that mad.

this has nothing to do with what was being discussed at all. he is attempting to appear as though he has pulled himself up by his bootstraps to become who he is today and thinks that others can do the same. in reality, not many people have rich daddy's who pay for everything but he's unable to see that because he's sheltered and ignorant. im also willing to bet he goes to church each sunday! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i am american, but find it regrettable that my country is full of religious zealots who try to lord their beliefs over people who are smarter than they are.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Slathar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this has nothing to do with what was being discussed at all. he is attempting to appear as though he has pulled himself up by his bootstraps to become who he is today and thinks that others can do the same. in reality, not many people have rich daddy's who pay for everything but he's unable to see that because he's sheltered and ignorant. im also willing to bet he goes to church each sunday! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i am american, but find it regrettable that my country is full of religious zealots who try to lord their beliefs over people who are smarter than they are.

By what justification? I'd gladly put my IQ test scores up vs yours. I'm not trying to 'lord' my beliefs on anyone, just simply stating what I believe, and making a point for my beliefs just as you are yours. But the fact that you can't comprehend God, doesn't make you smarter than me. I can assure you, day in and day out I run into both smart, and nearly retarded people from both sections of believers and non believers.

I go to church most Sundays, generally only miss for sickness, or being out of town for work or something. Does that make me dumber than you?

[quellren]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So explain to me then how we're all evolving at exactly the same rate, and that there is no one in the world that is 80% human 20% primate? Why are there 0 primates that are 50/50 human/primate? Why don't primates talk? Generations to Generations or not, everyone would have to be at the exact same spot in the evolutionary process.

If you don't want to view it that way, then why aren't there humans that are more evolved, that have larger brains, that pass from generation to generation? Why is it we don't just breed the people with the highest IQs to create more people with high IQs? How do you explain someone with parents with average IQs, being measured in the genius range? Is that because evolution happened so quickly in this case, and then ceased happening all together?

You really don't understand the principles of Evolution do you? Please go get the cliff-notes of Darwin's book, Origin of Species.

It seems to me that you mistake the end-goal of evolution to be complex, and human-like. Evolution isn't solely about increasing complexity. Humans aren't the pinnacle of evolution. Apes aren't becoming more like you and I because they don't need to.

Here's a scenario:
Two groups of apes, one lives deep in the forest, the other at the edge.
Over time, (10 thousand years, lets say) the forest monkeys keep living in the forest, and only the ones that are very good at climbing trees and grabbing fruit and are thus more healthy. This makes them desirable to female monkeys. They breed more. The ones bad at climbing don't mate, because they are sickly, or too muscular to climb well. They are not attractive to the other sex. Over 100 generations, only the monkeys good at climbing make more monkeys, which are, typically good at climbing. These are the concepts known as Fitness and natural selection. One trait was better ADAPTED and thus a benefit over another. It won the competition and stayed around. The other (non-climbing) wasn't aiding in the survival of the monkeys, so that trait wasn't passed on as often as climbing, agile monkeys.

Let's look at the other group, the forest edge monkeys: They can find food both in trees and on the plains away from trees. Over 100 generations, the forest shrunk and they had to compete with the climbing monkeys deeper in the forest, this was a battle that they wouldn't win, all the fruit was gone, taken by the better climbing monkeys deep in the forest. So they stick to food on the plains. But the grass is tall, so they learn to stand up and look over the grass. Now the tall, strong monkeys that can see danger, and carry lots of food to the family are the ones that are healthier and sought after. The short agile monkeys are at a disadvantage and don't breed often. This physical characteristic eventually dies out.
Over millions of years, this group of monkeys will grow very tall, be able to run long distances, and ditch all the body hair, because it's hot in the sun. They become 'human'.

The forest monkeys stayed short, agile, strong, and excellent tree climbers. WHY?
Because they didn't need to. The monkeys that were good at living in trees a million years ago had the same body shape as today because it's perfect for the monkeys lifestyle, climbing trees for food.

So you can drop that idea that evolution is a downloading progress bar, with the 20% complete, or 80% monkey nonsense.
Evolution is not a conveyor belt to being human.

[Henini]

Hauling is awesome in game and he's awesome on the forums too!

rocketmoose, I'm sure when religious groups go out to war against other people in the name of god you think it's ok that they kill people "because gold is telling them too".

nothing you said so far has any kind of logic or sense. your are the typical blind believer kind of person.

you are allowed to believe in creationism. you are allowed to believe spiderman and the tooth fairy exist too. you are allowed to believe in god. no one can take that away from you.
but if you have any kind of insight, you can see that there are so many religions out there and they all have different gods, some even have many gods.
Doesn't that make you think a little? obviously not, because there is only one true god and it's the one YOU believe in and everyone else is wrong. you made that pretty clear.

So, you have made it clear that you are not tolerant about other peoples beliefs, and you rely solely on fantasy novels to justify your beliefs. (the bible and superman cartoon have the same credibility when it comes to reality and facts).
Yet you manage to disregard all the findings from science, facts, tangible things that have been dug out of the earth.

but whatever, there is no point trying to reason with you. if you had any reason you wouldn't be here championing creationism and the absolute power of your god.