Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[genrah]

That's the point. I don't think we should cater to blues.. there are enough options for those people out there in the mmo genre as it is.

[Akim]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the point. I don't think we should cater to blues.. there are enough options for those people out there in the mmo genre as it is.

I think they should cater to us who quit playing blue 99 but want the classic era restored and a server wipe. EXP loss is good if it's minimal at earlier levels, no exp gain, no item loss, coin loss is good too.

[Shwingler]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it hard to convince the need for item loot with someone named softcore pk....but here goes.

There is a desire for such a hardcore ruleset out there, and people simply dont play EQ or many MMOS today because they are geared toward carebears.

Take a few moments to scour the forums over at darkenbane.com or lucidvision.org and you will find tons of posts asking for the good old days.

DB and LV were two of the more well know pk guilds back in the early Rallos Zek days.

I personally was never in a large guild, as it meant less targets for me to pvp with. But running solo or with a small gank squad of friends I managed to kill quite a few people, nab a lot of items, and have a hell of a time doing so.

Selling stolen goods also created a black market on the server.

As a result of solid pk guilds and pk system the anti pk movement came to light. The anti pk movement had some really strong guilds and just seeing the dynamic that this created is something that has never been recreated to this day in an mmo. At the root of this was item loot.

Item loot is what draws people to the concept.. just look at where Rallos went after LDON came out and everything went no drop with augments.

Item loot was a true death penalty. You felt like someone stole $200 from you if that robe you spent 24 hours camping was ganked. The thrill of getting killed as well as killing for loot really added to this dynamic.

People think twice before attacking with good gear on, and people think twice about wearing gear out due to being attacked. Far better concept than everything is no drop = little risk/reward.

-g

The funny thing is that I bet bluebies will quickly enjoy an item loot server more after their initial anger from losing one item they worked hard to get. Item loot forces people to collaborate and reputations become MUCH more important.

Coin loot is essentially no penalty for dying unless you lure someone for a purchase and kill them for the money back or before the transaction...

On RZ a community developed that people WOULD NOT group with you based on your guild or the fact that you were guildless. Guilds would enforce their truces and policy of being anti pk or pk based on your reputation which was easily lost, and relatively impossible to regain. This prevented a LOT of griefing. People would constantly /tell officers or leaders of your guild if you abused their anti pk reputation and you were almost always swiftly booted from the guild for your actions making the entire game significantly more difficult for you as now you were KOS to everyone.

Also item loot forced classes to cooperate and form trust. The dynamic really IS what makes PVP fun. Currently on Beta this no real threat to death (time and coin which I consider minimal penalty) causes chaos. It is NOT fun to have people engage a fight with you and then you beat them and they can just keep trying again for their money back... If a pk attacks you and LOSES some gear they had... well... they will hesitate the next time.

Additionally, everyone talking about naked casters running around pking people for their items at no risk... you do not know what you are talking about. Yes naked casters have a HUGE advantage compared to naked melee. But a naked caster vs a decently geared melee or geared caster will absolutely get raped unless there are mobs or something else involved. Sure sometimes they get a bit lucky but with item loot people also alter their playstyle to this.

For example using as much no drop gear as possible until they are in a safe area. Or bagging the most important (hardest to replace) pieces if they will lose a fight.

All these components really alter the gameplay mechanics and factions for the better rather than worse. The only problem is that everyone has to get burned once to really learn how it works. If you kept raped twice it becomes your own fault for trusting the random cleric to heal you at 10% with an inc smite.... if you don't bag your mithril bp next time it is your lack of precaution.

So in list form item loot changes the following:
-Less senseless pvp
-more intelligent fight engagements
-reputation becomes important
-risk/reward becomes significant
-Population evolves to meet global interests

All in all pks will have more fun and antis will have more fun protecting and punishing those who wronged them by blocking off all zones (with numbers usually)

[Billbike]

Originally Posted by Shwingler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Additionally, everyone talking about naked casters running around pking people for their items at no risk... you do not know what you are talking about. Yes naked casters have a HUGE advantage compared to naked melee. But a naked caster vs a decently geared melee or geared caster will absolutely get raped unless there are mobs or something else involved.

Have you even played classic Everquest?

[Softcore PK]

there are not enough of us. we need some of them, or i fear we'll have nothing at all.

[Bockscar]

need for item loot

There is no need for itemloot. There's a preference for it among some, but that's not at all the same as a need. Especially because those who want it are the minority. I really cannot see why people can consistently try to lobby for something that there are more people against than for, especially considering how it can be all but proven to affect the server negatively. If you try to convince the devs to implement something that you know the majority is against, you're a selfish fucktard. I fully respect those who would like itemloot but recognize that it doesn't have a place on this server. Those who keep posting about how it's a necessary feature whenever the slightest opportunity to mention it arises in order to make it look like there's more people in favor than there actually are? They can eat some dicks. Just like those polls that were solidly against itemloot until a guide asked for input on the ruleset and suddenly twenty accounts with less than 10 posts each all voted for itemloot in the span of like two hours. If you prefer itemloot, the game is still plenty playable without it. If you are against itemloot, having that feature forced upon you is a much greater deterrence than having to play without it when you'd rather play with it. When this server's goal is to appeal to and attract as many players as possible, and to maintain a healthy and relatively positive PvP environment, then trying to push for a feature that the majority is against is just profoundly stupid and basically proves that you consider your personal agenda more important than the success of the server.

[genrah]

Agreeing with the majority simply because you are in the minority is a pretty weak minded approach. Nothing would ever get accomplished with that attitude. Fact is there is a population out there who want something different and not the same ol same ol carebear approach. I'm simply making some valid arguments about the topic while you have resorted to telling people to eat dicks. Blue server is there to fill your needs if you dont want pvp. I highly doubt anyone with a pvp mindset is going to not play on a server because it had item loot. You would be surprised how many would play that are not even on this server/forum if you had some creative, forward thinking and were not such a lemming.

-g

[Bockscar]

Wow, you really are outstandingly stupid.

TIL: democracy is a weak-minded approach that never gets anything accomplished, and if you don't want itemloot, you don't want PvP!

Astonishing logic.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, you really are outstandingly stupid.

TIL: democracy is a weak-minded approach that never gets anything accomplished, and if you don't want itemloot, you don't want PvP!

Astonishing logic.

TIL: Bockscar is a demi-intellectual

I don't give a shit about item loot either way, but save your pedantic sophistry for impressing your community college instructors or dumb friends. Nothing genrah said merited the vitriolic bile you spewed back at him.

[Yukahwa]

I think item loot is the best way to go. If not true normal item loot from RZ than 1 random equipped item will drop when looted so you arent guaranteed to lose your best piece.

But i think the PVP engagement range is a more significant problem.