Current Sky Schedule

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

kagok asked if any guild would be willing to rotate their own rotation day with FE and you said sorry all days are full do it at 8 am if you want to raid sky...hence no.

we'll just go up when we have the interest then. thanks to FC though for offering to letting us tag along sorry i couldn't make it Tuesday.

Again, your (Kagok's) words not mine. Does "we'll just go up when we have the interest" mean that you won't care who's day it is as you have no interest in adhering to this schedule that's been maintained for months?

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, your (Kagok's) words not mine. Does "we'll just go up when we have the interest" mean that you won't care who's day it is as you have no interest in adhering to this schedule that's been maintained for months?

if it was my choice yes. people have asked to have us included in the schedule and we were told to go at 8 am. if the point of the rotation is to have all guilds getting along and working together so that everyone can participate don't think it's asking too much to have one guild a week give up their day to another guild since they will still get 3 sky raids a month at a minimum.

edit and it was your words. you said no go up at 8 am we already have a rotation.

[Sarius]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we'll just go up when we have the interest then

This is why Chest made the assumption that you would not respect a rotation, Mav made a nice "my way or the highway comment". Why doesn't FE try to reason with a weekend guild rather than have everybody else figure out the solution for them?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Sarius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why Chest made the assumption that you would not respect a rotation, Mav made a nice "my way or the highway comment". Why doesn't FE try to reason with a weekend guild rather than have everybody else figure out the solution for them?

A preliminary solution is to have FE take an AM slot to accommodate their request to raid sky in the short term. In the long term something else will have to be figured out, but that's not how this conversation took place. Mavpal did what Mavpal does and spoke for FE whether he had the authority to do so or not and claimed that if FE was not accommodated with a time slot that was to FE's liking then FE would "raid sky when they had an interest to do so" which is tantamount to an ultimatum.

1) don't let non FE reps speak for FE

2) respect the current rotation and the effort/restraint that was put forth to maintain this agreement

[maverixdamighty]

edit:chest not worth a response

[zanderklocke]

I really feel like there has gotta be a way weekend days can be utilized for 2 sky raids in one day. It seems like that would allow everyone to raid sky at least once a week and not have to port up randomly to update key corpses without raiding.

I mean we haven't heard from all the guilds yet.

I'll admit, that rotating every other week is a possible option to incorporate Forceful Entry, but some people will be raiding less due to rotations implemented; this isn't obviously the most favorable option for people raiding every week now. I would consider a guild to be very nice to take a week off to allow another guild to raid sky. (Just a thought, but would Forceful Entry allow that guild to try to join forces on a raid target that week against TMO for willingness to give up a sky raid day?)

There's gotta be a way a guild could maybe start their weekend sky raid at like 11:00 AM instead of like 1:00 PM or later to allow for a late night sky run. I mean Eabon was leading his sky raids on Sunday nights and no longer does so. Isn't there anyway to incorporate that time for Forceful Entry or maybe have Rapture start a bit earlier on Saturday?

I just have more than a hunch that rotations, unless extremely well worked out, is going to lead to conflict.

[cs616]

Chest, the simple fact is that there is a rotation that was formed that did not include arguably the #2 guild on the server. To remedy that situation we've come here in an attempt to find a way to enter the rotation in a manner that allows it to continue AND include everyone that wants to raid the zone. You, in your usual doom and gloom fashion, have assumed that we're just going to do what basically every raiding guild in the past has done and not respect any form of rotation. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me but I think this entire thread is evidence that we're going out of our way to avoid that.

Part of a rotation is maintaining and adapting it to meet the needs of those of us raiding on the server. There are 7 days in the week and 8 guilds that want to raid sky. Due to the raiding hours chosen by weekend guilds currently, there are only 7 slots that really work for most north american players. Certainly AM raids are an option, but the reason no other guild has taken AM times is because AM times simply don't work for most guilds.

Given these facts, instead of giving us one shitty option (raid in the AM) and then assuming the worst (we're just going to steamroll people), maybe you should be trying to work with us to find a solution. I think there is some potential for some slight adjustments to weekend times as Zanderr mentioned that can allow us all to get a weekly raid in. However, if the current members of the rotation are rigid and unwilling to compromise with new guilds trying to enter, do you really think the rotation is going to last?

I personally think it is awesome that sky has been put onto a rotation and hope to see it maintained, but as you've pointed out we could easily just go up there whenever we want, which in terms of loot would definitely be to our benefit. However, since we're willing to make compromises in an attempt to join and abide by the rotation I think it is only fair that the current members of the rotation do the same to accommodate us. If you're unwilling to do that I don't really see how you expect this rotation to last.

[Erati]

Im sorry but when was FE formed????

Those guilds on Sky rotation prob have been doin sky for close to a year now in some form of rotation. I have no idea when those days we r settled on happened but i can speak from my personal experience as a Taken member. I just came back to the game in Jan 2013 having taken a break in Aug 2011 and we have done Sky every Thurs since I came back and Im pretty sure they were doing it for months before I got back.

FC, Div, Rapture aka Flawless V, BDA are all pretty old guilds that have been doin sky in an organised, friendly, adult fashion for months prob some using that same day for over a year. Just bc a guild forms with the intent to raid hardcore n race for mobs does not mean it should skip being diplomatic with these guild leaders ( privately on their guild forums works best ) . Coming to these forums and demanding one of us "make way" for you without offering anything besides the fact you wont disturb thess raids which to my knowledge has never been interfered with unless Efreetis pop is laughable.

[zanderklocke]

Well, the two weekend guilds to work with would be Rapture and TMO, and I'll let you figure out which one FE will be more likely to be able to work with. Ha.

For real though, did TMO change its raiding schedule a great deal to let Eabon do his sky raids for the month and a half or so he led them on Sunday nights? Even if FE started Sky at like 9:00 PM on a Sunday, I imagine they could finish it in like 3-4 hours, as opposed to the 6-7 hours it takes smaller guilds. Other option I see is Rapture moving to earlier in the day than 4:00 PM.

I think it's in the best interest for all of the small guilds to figure out how we incorporate FE, otherwise, we risk being "curb stomped" if they decide they want to do Sky on a random day.

[cs616]

I don't understand how people are implying that we're not being diplomatic. This thread was started by an FE member trying to figure out the current schedule. Numerous FE members have posted in this thread with possible solutions, by my count 3: TMO raiding earlier, Rapture raiding later, rotating days so that one guild isn't stuck with an 8 AM raid every week. In fact, this entire thread is kind of a discussion about FE trying to start raiding sky without stepping on people's feet. Some of you guys are acting like our unwillingness to raid at 8am is some how unreasonable, when I doubt any other guild in the rotation would be willing to raid at the time. Shooting down our proposals and providing us with one shitty option isn't a compromise or diplomatic, in fact it is kind of the opposite.

I can see how Mav's or Shinko's post could be seen as undiplomatic, but really they're just pointing out that if our only option is to raid at 8 AM we're simply not going to join the rotation. That isn't a threat or an intent to ruin the rotation though, it is just the result of us trying to find a compromise and being unable to. It isn't the result you want, nor is it the result we want (again this entire post is evidence of that), but it is simply a fact that needed to be pointed out given that so far raiding at 8 AM is the only option people have been willing to provide us with.