Quote:
Originally Posted by Orruar
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It's not? If mass murders are being pushed as the reason for the need for new gun regulations, wouldn't it follow that empirical data about mass murders would be important? And when someone comes here and claims to base their opinion on the supposed fact that mass murders are at a ridiculous all time high, perhaps it's important to point out that the data actually contradicts that viewpoint. Of course, that doesn't really apply in this case, since we all know iruinedyourday just bases his opinion on whatever stupid thought floats through his head and makes him feel like a good person. It's that kind of anti-scientific thinking that all people of reason should be fighting against.
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What you quoted is out of context. I'm saying an increase in mass murders shouldn't be pushed as the reason for gun regulations, because I agree with you, it's factually false. The USA having a relatively high rate of mass murders, however, is factually true to the best of my knowledge. (The US leads the world in spree incidents but not fatalities per capita, obviously). Note that I don't see this as justification of gun laws. Honestly I appreciate that you went through the trouble to post those sources and I looked through them myself to see where they got their data and if they were appropriately rigorous, how their variables were defined etc, and it looked good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
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Fully automatic machine guns are not legal to buy in the USA unless they are collectors items, and then you have to file a hellish amount of paper work in order to purchase the collector item.
Regarding the purchase of the .50 caliber "sniper rifle." The Feds require a background check (NICS) for the purchase of long guns, shotguns, handguns and including the .50 caliber (form 4473). Some states have additional checks (like Maryland). Private sales are exempt from the back ground check in most states, but rest assured that the liberals are fighting hard, state to state, to ensure that private gun owners will be required to do a gun check before they can sell their firearm.
There is also a movement, notably in California, to have firearms dealers and retail stores perform a background check for ammunition purchases.
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You and I both know many of these laws are so poorly enforced and have so many easy loopholes and half-assed bureaucracy as to be nearly useless in many places. I know several people who have completely illegal (California) guns obtained legally (Nevada, Washington) in other places. Avoiding many of these laws is currently as easy as crossing a state line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
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Any way... any law abiding citizen is going through a shit load of paperwork to buy a weapon now days. The people you should be concerned about are the law breakers who give a damn. In which case there is no amount of gun legislation that will stop them. They are going to kill you with something no matter what, and they will get a gun if they really want one. You can't stop them.
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Such painfully binary logic. Of course people are still going to break laws and kill me. Does that mean we shouldn't make laws at all? This isn't a black and white issue. Good regulations and enforcement have the capacity to
reduce the incidence of these events, not eliminate them. It's like saying, well, if corporations are going to go through so much trouble evading taxes, Hollywood accounting, hiding money offshore, and just basically committing tax fraud, why even bother taxing them at all, if all you do is inconvenience honest corporations? That's not how laws work.
Dylann Roof, Elliot Rodger, and James Holmes all had either a criminal record or long, documented history of serious mental illness, and were nonetheless able to pass the meager, dysfunctional background check requirements in their states and purchase guns legally. Would these scumbags have eventually obtained a firearm somehow? Maybe. Would many psychos still slip through the net? Yes. But, assuming regulations were strengthened at the federal level, it would have been far more difficult. So why not? Because you can't be bothered to fill out a little bit of additional paperwork or wait a little bit longer? There's no reason not to do these things. If you don't have a criminal record or a long history of documented mental illness, you have nothing to worry about anyway. You want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Then stop thinking about gun ownership as a right instead of a privilege. It isn't 1783 anymore and a musket is not an assault rifle.
If you want to drive a car, you have to demonstrate a certain level of intelligence and proficiency (the bar is low). If you want to buy a gun, you should have to demonstrate you have no criminal record and no history of mental illness, no matter where in the United States you're trying to buy a gun. That's all I'm asking. I like guns, I'm a gun owner myself, I go shooting sometimes. Gun ownership and use is a wholesome American tradition. Some people take it too fucking far.
10-25-2015, 04:55 PM
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