Let's talk CLASS BALANCE

[Nivar Quartz]

Originally Posted by Hamahakki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zuranthium is clearly an old school EQ player with some good ideas but this thread misses the point.

The intent of Project 1999 is to recreate EQ as it was during the first couple of years following its launch. This means replicating the original game as closely as possible, not creating some custom content which is different but attempts to recapture the "spirit" or "feeling" of the original game.

Adding or removing class abilities, globally tuning mob strength or cast times, and increasing or reducing the damage and healing capabilities of classes are all off the table. Whether or not they would be an improvement is immaterial.

Nerfing Mag pets didnt help this objective.

[Dynaguy]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The extra mana regen is far more than 3 per tick. LOL!!! Only at the lower levels of cannibalize and healing efficiency is a Shaman going to get that little of a benefit from the skill. At the higher levels, with Chloroblast and being Alt specialized, it certainly is worthwhile to constantly canni inbetween med ticks and then start Chloroblasting yourself between med ticks when you get low on health. Cannibalize III is a 1.85 health-to-mana rate. Chloroblast is something like a 2.85 health-to-mana rate. You of course have Torpor (Regrowth in this case, the lower-level version that is not as powerful, since I'm not even talking about a Level 60 Shaman where Cannibalize IV and Torpor make things even MORE eficient) and natural health regen on top of that.

All in all, you can Cannibalize 8 times for every single cast of Chloroblast you need to do. Which means over the course of 9 ticks, you are gaining about 160 extra mana when also subtracting the little bit you need to expend on casting Regrowth every 20 minutes. The natural mana regen a caster has at this level is 21 per tick. With the Cannibalize system going, the Shaman is gaining an extra 17 mana per tick - This is an 80% increase in mana regen a Shaman has over another caster working off of natural regen. That is a freaking HUGE difference.

Chloroblast is not in the game. Don't know when it will be. but atm superior healing is our best heal, with an efficiency of 2.3. Also, canni 3 takes 100 hp, wiki is incorrect, so it's less efficient than you think. And our Canni 4 is actually less efficient than 3. So things aren't as awesome as you make them out to be. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Ofcourse with torpor, this is all moot anyway. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems to me you have more of a beef with shamans being very powerful, than actually wanting druids to be useful? Or why the explicit comparison to shamans? You can run this comparison with a bunch of other classes as well, and the conclusion would be the same.

[Messianic]

This is actually a pretty decent discussion, all things considered. It's relatively moot to how p99 is going to progress, but definitely neat.

I hadn't done parsing, but I always suspected wizard damage in a group was incredibly minuscule compared to sustained melee dps from a rogue or even a ranger. I enjoy the class, but pretty much all we're super-efficient at is AoE and raid burst damage.

To me, i'm completely unconcerned about class "Balance" if we mean balance in the sense that WoW has created. I want some classes to be helpless without other classes. I want some classes that are overpowered soloists. I want the variety. I like super-specialized classes (like wizards) with a completely unique flavor.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hadn't done parsing, but I always suspected wizard damage in a group was incredibly minuscule compared to sustained melee dps from a rogue or even a ranger. I enjoy the class, but pretty much all we're super-efficient at is AoE and raid burst damage..

This should be true...but then who else is going to burn down that bad pull and save the raid or group from a wipe? Not the monk or rogue! The burst dps + evac is a nice insurance policy for any group deep in a dungeon.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This should be true...but then who else is going to burn down that bad pull and save the raid or group from a wipe? Not the monk or rogue! The burst dps + evac is a nice insurance policy for any group deep in a dungeon.

True, but it's just as valid to say that the sustained DPS over the course of the group might have prevented the need for burst dps or evac anyhow... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[NickN8N]

Druid and Magician are the easiest classes in the game to level, there has to be a penalty of some sort for having it so easy.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by NickN8N [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druid and Magician are the easiest classes in the game to level, there has to be a penalty of some sort for having it so easy.

Geez, why did you skip over necro. As long as you're careful where you go (lot of people hate you) then it's a breeze and also very convenient since you can FD at any moment to go afk and be safe.

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Geez, why did you skip over necro. As long as you're careful where you go (lot of people hate you) then it's a breeze and also very convenient since you can FD at any moment to go afk and be safe.

Now I have to agree and disagree with you here. Yes Necro's are kings of soloing. But to play a Necro well isn't a breeze. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The same could be said about all classes. But we all know there are really good players at their class and really bad ones (and some in the middle too). If it was a breeze for each of us then everyone would be exactly the same on their char.

[Fryhole]

The class is meant to fill a role when another 'pure' class isn't available. Sorry it's not what you wanted - pick something else then. Not gonna bother quoting your responses and countering them because it's clear you didn't take the time to do the research either. /thread

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Fryhole [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The class is meant to fill a role when another 'pure' class isn't available.

And it completely fails at doing so. I agree that should be what the class is capable of doing and I believe that IS what the game designers wanted the class to be capable of, but with the way the game is currently programmed that simply isn't what the class is capable of doing at the higher levels. The Druid absolutely can not fill in as the healer. The druid absolutely can not fill in as a separate form of defense (ie - debuffs to monsters, especially the very import slow mechanic, or some other significant form of damage prevention). The Druid absolutely can not fill in as DPS. The Druid absolutely can not serve as crowd control (in most cases).

Originally Posted by Fryhole [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not gonna bother quoting your responses and countering them because it's clear you didn't take the time to do the research either.

Research? I lived Everquest from its earliest (non-beta) days and my mind is perfectly capable of recollection. And FYI, before posting my thoughts, there are some details that I have in fact still gone back to check anyway.