Wizards! Do you regret it?

[Doors]

Classic everquest is not a grocery store.

Roleplay is gay.

People who are twinked have done the classic from nothing grind already.

[visage]

You know he makes some valid points. It is good to see he has his own set of values for the game and sticks with them. Regardless, on how others dislike them. I for one admire that. I don't agree, or would do in a lot of the things he is saying , but I definetly see his point. We all love this game for different aspects. It is always refreshing to see others having different opinions and liking it for how they see fit. Kudos to you friend. Don't let being different ware you down. Social coniditioning in Eq is very real.

[Motec]

You wont clarity a random? I am happy to rez anyone anytime within reason as long as it doesnt affect my groups xp substantially. That 700 mana is only 1000dmg or so considering resists so I dont mind in the slightest unless im extremely under the pump. Even then they can just wait ten minutes and ill usually find some mana [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I do laugh at is an enchanter who wont cast a 75 mana spell on a random who asks. I'll happily symbol/hero a chanter for c2 just out of principle and building that repor usually means future relationships are more likely. If you've played 1-60 on several new servers you would have a different attitude as specifically being kind, generous, and dedicated to doing your job the best gets you places that being an arrogant arse does not.

As for waka, everything you describe is flat out wrong and inefficient. If a wizzard is doing absolutely anything aside from medding in between nukes they shouldnt be a wiz. They serve zero purpose to a group. I'll happily tell wizzies off for looting (ill throw them a couple of gems or ruby crowns at end) as a missed tic of med is a tangible loss in dps. Its that simple. A rogue for instance does not have this problem, as post exp message they can do handstands in kilts for all I give a hoot.

You're right, some people treat this game like a job. I am also fairly regimented in most of life so why be any different in a game? Whats so wrong with making the most of my time? Less time spent being inefficient = more time to goof around later on. Its 6 of one or a half dozen of the other, but id rather make time I set aside to achieve a goal be used most efficiently.

As for brilliance etc on a cleric. You realise higher overall manapool = higher disposable damage? I on average nuke more than heal in a well functioning group and for the inevitable 2-3mins of afk where I hit FM, thats a free nuke/stun/whatever. Thats the difference between a wipe and a win when your enchanter chain roots to try and drop aggro (this was lol worthy) so specifically once in the last 3 days I know that one buffed saved an hour of CR. For the same reason everyone gets at least a hp buff, more total hp in group = more damage when shit hits the fan, and more options for a smart cleric to do his job in making shit right.

And finally. Twinks. My twink rogue is better geared than most rogues on the server and I will group with anyone twink or not, and if theyre not they get to loot absolutely everything and get a massive boost to their xp etc, get to know a higher level who is happy to rez/buff etc them whenever and generally you encounter some cool people. This server is so good for random encounters; for instance just goofing around farming efreeti the other week to waste time we found a mid level chanter, dropped the 60 from group and got him a shitload of xp and lewt, found out he is a cool dude and an ex cleric from live. Now he's a member of the guild. What an awesome find, just from asking for clarity from a random dude then realising we can help out.

The social aspect is so awesome here, but maybe its just that like minded people attract and those of us who have done it all before several times tend to attract eachother in a way a wizzie offering to pull and slow me down, or an enchanter who does not think more than one step ahead does not.

I really do feel sorry for anyone who rolls a wizzie and doesnt know their job. I feel especially sorry for those that know their job and arent geared out the teeth as thats the only way you become a value add as a wizzie in kunark. Its an issue of class balance, nothing personal.

[WizardEQ]

Bring back Classic "BETA" Everquest. Then you got your pre-nerf wizards back (and lots of other stuff)!

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...

This is, quite honestly, the worst "I played a wizard and they suck" post I have ever seen. There are shreds of truth in it, but the examples you provide tell me you weren't a very good wizard.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Took me over a month to get to lvl 50 from 49.

Really? It took me about 2 hours in Kunark, solo.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then I thought okay once i hit 51 things will be better! NOPE. The mobs in kunark required to get past 51 have crazy fucking HP and the zones are a bitch to quad in.

Kinda true - depends where you're at. Spirocs in TD have about as much hp as specs and are better exp. You can quad Seafuries - granted, you have to go during off-hours - through 53/54 or so. There are other mobs to quad and spots I found which are actually pretty effective, but require you to turf certain factions. It also took having access to old ShowEQ spawn information to know exact hp levels of various mobs.

But I definitely agree that after 53/54, even quad kiting becomes very lethargic. Quadding raptors in TD is about 1% exp per quad with 6-7 minute med times, and its the only place that's usually uncamped.

Top Ten Things I wish I knew when I made my wizard...

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Even at lvl 50 if you want to do any quadding you have to use your lvl 34 aoe spell because it is the most mana efficient all other AoEs are either retarded dmg/mana ratio or they are rain damage which simply doesn't cut it.

This is true to some degree, but 50-51 only took me about 2-2.5 hours at bloodgills in LoIO.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. Wizard snare sucks ass. On the plus side its an AoE snare which is cool, on the downside it disappears several times during a fight.

You never snare a mob at the beginning of a fight anyhow, unless you're single-target nuke kiting a mob. Otherwise, Atol's lasts plenty long, and has a fixed duration, which is helpful.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its necessary to resnare 3 to 5 times during a quad.

I have never had to resnare a quad unless one of the mobs resisted. Ever.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Post 40 You can never find a group and if you do xp is slower than shit because you're losing the grp DPS.

You can find a group about as easily as a ranger, but I agree that other classes are generally a better option. But if you're playing EQ correctly - i.e. making contacts and finding people you trust, which is absolutely necessary in tougher dungeons - you'll get groups for being a half-decent player.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. Looks like you get a lot of spells on the spell list right? WRONG dmg/mana ratio is messed up for 80 percent of them

Not sure what you mean by this. It's true the mana-damage ratio on wizard spells is only barely better than Magician/Druid/Necro/Shaman DD, and was probably one of the biggest oversights of classic EQ, but they're not "messed up" or "bugged" in any way. It was a game design flaw.

The main difference between Wizard DD and Magician DD, for example, is a tiny bit of speed, which is useful for raid mobs. But the approximately 1 second faster casting time on Ice Comet vs Lava bolt is definitely not compared with the power the magician's pet represents.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

be prepared to use one spell for everything. I'm convinced as a wizard you could prolly spend under 150p for all your spells until 50 if you ditch the ones that you'll never use.

This is actually rather true, since you can go 1-50 without touching caster mobs, so your stuns and force strike/thunderbolt kinda spells are really unnecessary and terribly inefficient on non-caster mobs, and annul/cancel magic type spells aren't necessary at all, and really only useful when you're grouping.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5. At level 50, if you get more than 2 light blue mobs on you in Uguk you are fucked if you can't evac.

Not me - but I actually carry additional HP gear around (and have since I was able to afford it in my early 20s) for potentially dangerous situations, i.e. attempting to solo camp mobs. 2 55hp/5ac rings, HBC, golden jaded bracelets, feathered leggings (since black chitin leggings are way too expensive and heavy for their return), glowing bone collar, and a Platinum Tiara (which i sold, but i will eventually get another).

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6. You will never be able to camp a single item that is in a dungeon. You need a wide open space to do any sort of soloing at all.

It's true that wizards are very weak at camping mobs that Necros/Mages/Chanters/Shaman/Well-Geared Monks/SK's/Sometimes Pallies consider child's play. But I can still camp, at 52, a good number of decent money-making camps (and quadding seafuries early in the morning or HGs is still very good money).

But no, you don't need a wide open space to solo. I soloed Heart Spiders in upper guk until 20. Until 26, I soloed single mobs such as Osargen in HK, until I discovered how effective column of lightning was - even without AoE snare.

Again, I needed to buy some cheap hp gear to be able to do that. But it took thinking outside the box rather than believing that you can only solo something if you can chain-nuke it to death without interruption.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

7. Porting yourself is cool. Porting other people isn't. "Sorry man, that's all I have on me." Most of the time they want to dick you with a donation of 5 plat. Hardly worth your time. If you dont play /anon or /roleplay be prepared for tells every three seconds asking for you to go way out of your way for a 5 plat port.

This is kinda true. It's sad to see people in 40k+ worth of gear who tip 10 plat for a port. But that's why I stay anon and just jump on people who offer 80pp+ for ports. Those are worth my time.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

8. Single Target Instant Kill at 60!!?!?? Cool right!? Wrong, the mob has to be below lvl 52 and when you use it you get no xp and the corpse disintegrates upon kill, so there is no loot either. So even at 60 the one spell that could enable you to camp items in dungeons dicks you once again.

I never assumed disintegrate would ever be a helpful spell.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

9. Roots are nice and at 51 you get one that lasts a whole year, lotta good that is for soloing when you nuke it immediately breaks no matter what.

I think you mean paralyzing earth at 49 - but yes, it does last a really long time, and no, that's not helpful for someone who nukes as a primary source of damage. So it's pretty much useless *except* as CC when you're grouped.

Originally Posted by Chewboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

10. Want to port over to EJ or Skyfire? Not only do you have to be in kunark but you have to be in a kunark dungeon to do it. That's right, thats a port in to DL, then a run all the way across the hills to karnor's to port to EJ or Skyfire. Oh and when you port into Skyfire, Spread those ass cheeks wide as hell because those sperm with teeth are waiting for ya.

This is entirely accurate, and annoying. Staying bound near a Kunark dungeon becomes a virtual necessity.

[Atmas]

Played a Wiz as a main for all of my career on live, which started near launch and went through till OoW release. I made a wiz here recently because I didn't learn my lesson the first time (I hope I never do). He's only 20 so far, I will try to touch on both experiences.

1. Wiz Group DPS - Playing my wiz now I have frustrations based on the mechanics people have mentioned. DPS isn't tied to gear except when emptying a full mana bar vs a fight. As a low level wiz easily accessible strong melee weapons can make you feel shameful to be leaching group xp because of the state of horrid mana regen. Resists will make you want to slit your wrists. As others have mentioned the more chain pulling your group does the worse your dps per fight will be.

On the flip side of this if you are in a group that has more time between pulls you benefit. Also if you happen to have a nice enchanter cast some crack on you it is quite possible to dominate the dps for a portion of time, particularly if you are in a group capable of pulling multiple mobs.

It is unforunate though that unless these circumstances occur you will be likely the bottom of the dps in a standard group setting. I do say the word stanard because if you are in a situation with multiple mobs and agro management AoE efficiency can have a huge impact on dps and total damage output.

On live I remember when AAs and crits arrived that I would group with a chanter and bard in my guild and manage to pull pretty good sustained numbers but that isn't pertinent at this time.

2. Wiz DPS - The counter balance of Wizards having poor sustained DPS is good burst. At some spell levels its normal to two shot dark blue mobs and if soloing at camps with a limited number of mobs its actually nice to be able to burn the mobs down then just chill while medding and waiting for respawn.

In the raid setting Wars and Clerics (maybe a slower) are probably the only truely critcal classes but obviously different classes have benefits. Wizards can pump out quick DPS that doesn't have to be sustained indefinitely. I actually remember on live I got the majority of two of my late 40s/ early 50s levels in PoFear raids. Even with deaths I made a killing on xp because the space between mobs let me burn them down.

Even in a group at my current low level if a pull goes bad I have some extra mana I can burn down some mobs and maybe save the day.

Kunark and Velious made the margins more narrow between wizards and other dps for raids but then later on Luclin and PoP put Wizards and Rogues back in another league. Again not all necessarily relevant.

3. Soloing - Wizard soloing is not the best. It's also far far from the worst given that several of the classes have no soloing ability once they reach a certain point. I loved being able to go out and just quad for xp on live. No help was required from other classes if you had jboots, though a SoW or Clarity was a nice aide to have.

4. Camping Items - No pet means no free sustained damage. No free sustained damage means you could potentially go oom clearing through green mobs if they are handled in singles. I recally being able to camp things outdoors pretty easily and not a terrible amount of trouble with indoor spawns though.

5. Utility - If you like traveling and get bored of xping in the same place it is a huge boon to instantly get across the globe.

There are obvious downsides to playing a wizard, namely standard group sustained deeps. But at least you can function without a group and from my experiences function well in a raid. Hopefully you play a class that you like and play with people who (if they are super dps focused) understand the other benefits of a Wiz.

[Messianic]

"Fizzler on the roof," LOL - whoever made that tag is a genius


Anyhow, you can sum up this thread by saying that wizards are good at two things - Quadding at certain level ranges for fast exping, and manadumping on raid bosses. A minor mention for chain stunning caster mobs.

Anything else and you're likely better off with any other class.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for brilliance etc on a cleric. You realise higher overall manapool = higher disposable damage? I on average nuke more than heal in a well functioning group and for the inevitable 2-3mins of afk where I hit FM, thats a free nuke/stun/whatever.

If you are nuking more than you are healing in a well functioning group as a Cleric, then it's not actually that great of a group (unless you're lower level and fighting undead). The group should be constantly pulling, you should be doing nothing but healing and possibly rooting or stunning casters, and you should never hit full mana. Even if you go AFK and med to full, the added benefit of Brilliance would give you an extra 30 mana. It costs over a 100 for me to cast. So, nope, I'm not going to waste my effort and mana to mem and cast that spell on you, just so that you can have another little icon sitting there on your buff/debuff box.

[Motec]

heh. you has no idea sirz. plz read more prima guide and display your wisdom for all of us

[Decad]

My 1st post on the forums so do not flame me

Having played a wizard on live to 70 I gotta say that the social stigma wizards endure only started to change after Velious Banes will added. And even then it remain till luclin/POP AA days.

Although lures do work in raids in Kunark it changed nothing the social stigma wizards face.

Throw in the already known/debated/discussed/trashed out multiple times issues of DPS and resists playing a wizard really becomes a perseverance grind and more reliance on friends and guild

Would love to hear the developers thoughts on this matter though.

Just my 2 cp