CHARMING AND MEZZING

[Windez]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Karnor's Castle

Strategy Submitted on: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

I don't really have any care either way here, but I noticed this discrepancy. Kunark wasn't released until April 24, 2000. I guess this person must have perfected this strategy while beta testing.

[Zuranthium]

I don't remember expansions being beta tested by normal players. Seems more likely the submit date on there is wrong.

[ithaqua]

Yeah, it was intentionally overtuned. Either for slowing down the top tier guilds or god/oow was intended to be released as a package depending on who you ask. Uqua was even more overtuned at release and got toned down a bit during the GoD time line.
A friend had over 100 raid hours in pre nerf uqua failing at barxxt and beating it first attempt after the retune ^^
SoE probably wasn’t ready to release qvic+ or at least not tacvi right away with the GoD release )

[Jimjam]

Are you agreeing with me? As the mitigation data didn’t include what the tanks were wearing or the attack values of mobs. And the solution landed on was actually decidedly non classic - especially in terms of caps and returns - because an un-classic model using the mob stats we have gave closer results to classic data than using exact classic mechanics (as all mobs would have needed a revamp to adjust their melee stats to fit the classic formula).

This is why I use mitigation as my key example - it is purposely unclassic in actual mechanics in order to give closer to classic results (than what it was previously).

You may be right that they’ve got the spells issues into the window of ‘close enough’ too.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you agreeing with me? As the mitigation data didn’t include what the tanks were wearing or the attack values of mobs. And the solution landed on was actually decidedly non classic - especially in terms of caps and returns - because an un-classic model using the mob stats we have gave closer results to classic data than using exact classic mechanics (as all mobs would have needed a revamp to adjust their melee stats to fit the classic formula).

This is why I use mitigation as my key example - it is purposely unclassic in actual mechanics in order to give closer to classic results (than what it was previously).

You may be right that they’ve got the spells issues into the window of ‘close enough’ too.

I don't know if I agree with you or not. I'm not clear on what your position is on this subject. I dislike the term "Classic" or "Not-Classic", because no one, except maybe the original devs that worked on EQ, knows exactly how all the game mechanics worked in 1999-2000 ERA; The Original source codes for the game all gone; Very little hard data exist, if any, online; and the majority of "evidence" people post are little more the anecdotes and speculation about how they remember the game worked 20+ years ago. Human memory is notoriously unreliable. People often repeat information that they heard from someone else, even when that information is wrong. The Rumor Mill is a thing. Also, a lot us were younger video game players back then. At 12 years old I was not even that good at the game. Expecting a bunch of young Kids, Teenagers, and underachieving adults to accurately understand and report complex game mechanics is kind of far fetched.

I honestly think that at this points the term classic is meaningless, because no one has anything to accurately compare it to. The original game does not exist anymore. How does anyone know for certainty that the P99 devs didn't get 100% right on this or wrong on other things etc.

[Jimjam]

Oh yea, my position is as ethereal as the reality of ‘classic’ itself. Certainly I originally reposted this classic comment from casters realm as it does go against a certain narrative on the forum that charm was basically unused back in 1999 - the post clearly showed it worked at some level.

I do concede that implementation here is unlikely perfect BUT I do think it is functionally sufficient. There are certainly things I’d place at a higher priority (particularly getting newbie yards working classically - making it impossible to spawn camp and making it so newbie yards are full of mobs when overcamped but not overfull of mobs when undercamped).

Honestly fixing newbie yards would be my #1 desire preceding green 2.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh yea, my position is as ethereal as the reality of ‘classic’ itself. Certainly I originally reposted this classic comment from casters realm as it does go against a certain narrative on the forum that charm was basically unused back in 1999 - the post clearly showed it worked at some level.

I do concede that implementation here is unlikely perfect BUT I do think it is functionally sufficient. There are certainly things I’d place at a higher priority (particularly getting newbie yards working classically - making it impossible to spawn camp and making it so newbie yards are full of mobs when overcamped but not overfull of mobs when undercamped).

Honestly fixing newbie yards would be my #1 desire preceding green 2.

I'm not familiar with the Newbie Yard issue. Were the spawn points randomized? Did they have variable spawn rates based off of the number of players in the zone?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not familiar with the Newbie Yard issue. Were the spawn points randomized? Did they have variable spawn rates based off of the number of players in the zone?

They worked a bit like ancient croc in guk or the alligators in qeynos sewers. A group of mobs would be linked and they wouldn’t respawn until all members of that group had been killed. The respawn time was almost instant though. The spawns were usually spread out (but in the case of paineel the spawns were clumped together).

It was a really elegant solution.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They worked a bit like ancient croc in guk or the alligators in qeynos sewers. A group of mobs would be linked and they wouldn’t respawn until all members of that group had been killed. The respawn time was almost instant though. The spawns were usually spread out (but in the case of paineel the spawns were clumped together).

It was a really elegant solution.

Did you post a Bug Report?

[Jimjam]

It has been posted before. The devs mentioned wishing they had time to fix newbie yards before green was released. Maybe it is forgotten again.

I just recorded a quick lofi video demonstrating the mechanic.

Jump to 1:05 for the good stuff... apologies for not muting combat music!