sk starting points

[Lune]

The difference is you simply have no idea what you are talking about and are using end-game raiding, assumption that max mana automatically translates into an extra lifetap for survivability (never mind better complete heals, and that if he doesnt need to spend that mana on a lifetap he can use it for more efficient applications), and other edge cases to make the case for allocating INT on an iksar SK that is almost certainly never going to see the utility of that decision.

Buddy you seem to get tangled in the weeds a bit too easily with the edge cases and misunderstanding of the relative utility of mana. We figured this one out years ago.

[Troxx]

My 60 alt paladin has a pathetic mana pool of 1600 and a wisdom of only 107. Other than a ToV weapon he saved from rot, he is slum geared. I can’t think of any situation I’ve ever been in where 20 more wisdom would have been a game changer. I’ve still managed to tank Kunark raid targets with him, tank ToV trash clears, and done every difficult group encounter I can think of as a tank without breaking a sweat.

If a knight is consistently in a position where they are running so out of mana that a pool 20 int/wis worth would provide a game changing benefit, they and those they are with are doing something terribly wrong.

Even then, that extra mana pool is only good until you use it.

Having a Narandi crown, shawl, and mind buffs is really the only thing that counts.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is you simply have no idea what you are talking about and are using end-game raiding, assumption that max mana automatically translates into an extra lifetap for survivability (never mind better complete heals, and that if he doesnt need to spend that mana on a lifetap he can use it for more efficient applications), and other edge cases to make the case for allocating INT on an iksar SK that is almost certainly never going to see the utility of that decision.

Buddy you seem to get tangled in the weeds a bit too easily with the edge cases and misunderstanding of the relative utility of mana. We figured this one out years ago.

The problem here is you simply assume that saying "you don't know what you are talking about" is a valid argument. It isn't.

I can back up my arguments with facts, while you haven't.

When comparing INT to STA, you can see how much you get from both. STA gives you 104 HP at 60, and INT gives you roughly 220 mana under 200 INT.

A level 30 SK is getting 52 HP from the STA, and roughly 110 mana from the INT. 110 mana translates to 56 HP via one Lifedraw + Life Spike, and you still have 20+ mana. Statistically the INT is helping you more while leveling.

INT is factually harder to cap once you hit 60 compared to STA and STR.

I can show you the tangible benefits at all level ranges.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My 60 alt paladin has a pathetic mana pool of 1600 and a wisdom of only 107. Other than a ToV weapon he saved from rot, he is slum geared. I can’t think of any situation I’ve ever been in where 20 more wisdom would have been a game changer. I’ve still managed to tank Kunark raid targets with him, tank ToV trash clears, and done every difficult group encounter I can think of as a tank without breaking a sweat.

If a knight is consistently in a position where they are running so out of mana that a pool 20 int/wis worth would provide a game changing benefit, they and those they are with are doing something terribly wrong.

Even then, that extra mana pool is only good until you use it.

Having a Narandi crown, shawl, and mind buffs is really the only thing that counts.

I used to think this was true. Mana regen or bust, ignore max mana. But I didn't find it to be true when playing my SK.

With about 2k mana my troll could usually go at around 90 minutes before needing a med break. This is because you're balancing health with mana utilizing regen, epic procs, clickies, fear kiting etc. SKs are all about the balancing act.

Having another 200 mana would have let me go another 10 minutes or so without needing a med break. I find that to be pretty significant. I went STA and it literally did nothing for me. I'd regen that in between pulls so it really didn't change my killing power. STA is all about cheal chains and having a little more aoe survivability. Which for tanking group/raid stuff is good as I mentioned. But most SKs like to solo a lot, the class is designed perfectly to do so. And I just found little use for Stamina.

[Snaggles]

Situations where you cycle aggro spells on cooldown for you don’t need much mana. Stunt kills and some raids hits with AoE’s its definitely helpful. Drain soul more or less is a wort pot and people do carry those.

I’m a firm believer starting points can’t make or break a character. You can be less optimized depending on definitions and goals but not like in the normal sense where you are better off starting over. SK’s have a massive stat and perk spread from littles to fatties and people still argue 20+ years later about what is best.

High high end as a raider I’d say a notable Hp pool, maxed Str with focus, and a ton of mana are likely preferred. This is a game of long repops so half a dozen more taps is never a bad thing. For grouping just because you don’t need to normally use all your mana, if your cleric dies and you’re left trying to survive, having more mana is always helpful.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used to think this was true. Mana regen or bust, ignore max mana. But I didn't find it to be true when playing my SK.

With about 2k mana my troll could usually go at around 90 minutes before needing a med break. This is because you're balancing health with mana utilizing regen, epic procs, clickies, fear kiting etc. SKs are all about the balancing act.

Having another 200 mana would have let me go another 10 minutes or so without needing a med break. I find that to be pretty significant. I went STA and it literally did nothing for me. I'd regen that in between pulls so it really didn't change my killing power. STA is all about cheal chains and having a little more aoe survivability. Which for tanking group/raid stuff is good as I mentioned. But most SKs like to solo a lot, the class is designed perfectly to do so. And I just found little use for Stamina.

you already said you dont raid, if you did youd want max stamina. if you are ogre/troll sure you dont need to use sta points, but if you choose a better looking race i would. just because you raid doesnt mean you automatically are in bis, im in mostly 2nd and i dont cap until a couple more items.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is you simply assume that saying "you don't know what you are talking about" is a valid argument. It isn't.

I can back up my arguments with facts, while you haven't.

When comparing INT to STA, you can see how much you get from both. STA gives you 104 HP at 60, and INT gives you roughly 220 mana under 200 INT.

A level 30 SK is getting 52 HP from the STA, and roughly 110 mana from the INT. 110 mana translates to 56 HP via one Lifedraw + Life Spike, and you still have 20+ mana. Statistically the INT is helping you more while leveling.

INT is factually harder to cap once you hit 60 compared to STA and STR.

I can show you the tangible benefits at all level ranges.

See I'm beginning to doubt you're even reading or understanding my posts because you're ignoring or failing to comprehend what I've said. I'm not making any argument about what things are like at 60 with capped stats. OP is extremely unlikely to ever reach that point.

Yes your argument is based on facts, as is mine, but that doesn't make you correct, because the conclusions you are drawing from those facts are all wrong. You're telling some dude who wants to roll an iksar SK to play around with a Greenmist to put all his points into INT because at 60, raid-buffed and raid-geared, he's going to cap his STR and STA, and in that situation INT provides a damn near negligible benefit. Greater INT when leveling only translates to HP IF YOU RUN OUT OF MANA *and* cast the spells, because it's not sustain. Greater HP is going to keep you above the "Oh shit" threshold on a larger portion of fights and potentially preclude you from ever casting inefficient lifetaps in the first place.

You're additionally ignoring the fact that STR is going to help him do more damage 100% of the time while leveling, increasing XP, ending fights more quickly, and saving spells from ever having to be cast, while greater INT has a few fringe benefits in survivability, and you have to cast spells to realize the translation from mana to HP. Furthermore, that you believe Shralok Packs are going to keep an iksar from getting encumbered when stuffed with fine steel and other heavy junk tells me you've never played a nerd race.

[Snaggles]

I’m a fan of spending knight points on str assuming you aren’t an ogre, troll, or dwarf. Wearing normal (EC and Chardok) gear you won’t get much str if stamina focused. Sk’s don’t get yaulp4 to bump str 40 points. Even then, my 90str pally casual raiding pally with y4 barely caps str with Focus. If you are filling out BiS then do whatever you want.

In the end it’s only 10-20 points but a casual player constantly running slow while trying to pack fine steel is a miserable experience.

I hope the OP has fun with the SK! Greenmist quest is super fun.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m a fan of spending knight points on str assuming you aren’t an ogre, troll, or dwarf. Wearing normal (EC and Chardok) gear you won’t get much str if stamina focused. Sk’s don’t get yaulp4 to bump str 40 points. Even then, my 90str pally casual raiding pally with y4 barely caps str with Focus. If you are filling out BiS then do whatever you want.

In the end it’s only 10-20 points but a casual player constantly running slow while trying to pack fine steel is a miserable experience.

I hope the OP has fun with the SK! Greenmist quest is super fun.

Yea I put my points into STA on my current DE SK and I'm wishing I would have done more STR less STA. Shaman buffed me and it killed me how much more dmg I was doing haha

[Troxx]

TLDR version for OP: stats don’t actually matter. Dump it all into wisdom and you’ll still be fine.

For the OP in this instance given rolling iksar for greenmist and with a race with low starting strength - I’m still going with Lune in that strength will give you a better quality of life. You will actually do more damage. Things will actually die faster. You will actually be able to carry more stuff. Those are givens.

If you were aspiring to be a BiS raid geared toon? I’d say go full intelligence. If you were going to actively raid but not ever shoot for endgame BiS, either stamina or intelligence will serve you well regardless of race.

But if you’re just rolling a low strength alt to play around with (solo, xp group, whatever) … strength works just fine.

It’s really not that complicated.