As a christian.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Satan as a concept is super cool though so score 1 for Christians

And also score 1 for Mark Twain

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

[Bukowski]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any cool quotes that you like by this dude from RL? Fan of this author's work.

A cool part of being alive during this era is that before I die I'll be able to ask an AI hologram version of Bukowski (the literary giant) why he hasn't written any books lately. I think he'll like that question. He'll give me a brand new way of looking at the silliness of reality that we are all involved in. All created by an AI version of him via a large language model of his current work posthumously. Can't wait.

Great art might live longer that we do.

Sorry for the slow reply. I commented on this thread thinking it was silly, and not intending to ever look at it again. Then saw in an email you replied to me. I was just about to go to sleep, and I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "RL" - but I do have quite a few Bukowski quotes I enjoy (lines/phrases from poems, etc).

Admittedly, when I was really into Bukowski it was quite some years ago..so I'm not entirely sure they all mean to me what they did back then.

Some of my favorite lines of his are not necessarily his most popular musings about the state of humanity or people. I really enjoyed the way he could instill a certain slice of life into the endings of his poems, just very human moments.

"later we joked about the lotion
and the cigarette and the apple.
then I went out and got some chicken
and shrimp and french fries and buns
and mashed potatoes and gravy and
cole slaw,and we ate.she told me
how good she felt and I told her
how good I felt and we
ate the chicken and the shrimp and the
french fries and the buns and the
mashed potatoes and the gravy and
the cole slaw too."

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

Watch supernatural, it's heretical, butt there's a complex personality for u

Jealousy of G-d and his Creation(s) is satans MO

he hates humans because G-d loves them and looks after them and gives us a chance at redemption where as Satan thinks we should all be destroyed because we are beyond redemption and imperfect (like "he is perfect").

In other words G-d won't let Satan (the perfect being) into heaven butt he'll let us shitlords in. So Satan has set about his job to turn us towards evil and keep us from everlasting peace and love and keep us locked into this realm of material and death to punish us for being imperfect because G-d won't. Jibartik has a lot to say on this.

Currently Satan rules the earth. So be careful if you don't adress ur prayers to G-d directly u'll probably get him.

Satan only loves himself and he wants g-d's love but will never get it (the way he wants, to be ruler of the universe and destroy all the hooomans), and he wants the ang ***Els (Nephilim) to follow him, and he tolerates them even though they aren't as perfect as him.

It's all very DC/marvel/X-men if ur into that sorta blasphemy. And Idolatry.

[magnetaress]

P.S. I was baptized so when I had my NDE and was being judged (already) it was pretty much all the apostles and Christ and G-d coming to visit me. (in reply to seducio)

It was very weird I can't describe it here exactly they where all there in name and action tho. And a few of my loved ones. PLUS my past self including in name so I could see the alternate paths my life could have taken.

I was given the choice to come back and I did. I'm not sure why I did it was foolish of me, because I could have died then and there.

Seducio you mention the many branching universes


the universe I came back into is way (and i mean clearly mandela effect in big way(s)) different than the one I left when I died to face judgement ---- from an athiestic perspective, that universe existed and is now ded, i believe it now exists without me that that branch now carries on without me and still exists with all the ppl in it, and that I simply jumped branches my conciousness was given that choice and G-d granted me this succor.

QM is a real funky thing if ur into athiesm, butt our choices, feelings, thoughts, words, deeds, imaginations, directly reflect in everything in reality. And I do believe that is by design. Our Ego is what keeps us from G-d. Yet that is by design aswell. (I believe because G-d wishes us to become more like him so that we may GROW and become /be independent AND also GOOD, not to replace him tho, in this way he will raise some of us up into a special position i forget what it is called to look after the NEXT universe, while the rest go to new jeruselem or heaven)

Tho I am flawed and cannot quote the scripture and explain this all in the detail it was explained to me, I take solace in that I can share this message with you and tell you that G-d has a WONDERFUL and GLORIOUS plan for all of us and we are free to live and partake in his plan.

Athiests would just say I have a limited consciousness or altered mental state and reality and my awareness is crumbling, I beg to differ tho. They would probably blame it on head trauma as that would be most likely.

I doubt it tho and I have much more faith in G-d then some head trauma that wouldn't make sense to be so exact in detail and purpose.

As for the golden rule, I do not want to torture or hurt this person so they are being cut lose to torture themselves. Until they can see the light of day and come into G-d's grace again.

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by Bukowski [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"later we joked about the lotion
and the cigarette and the apple.
then I went out and got some chicken
and shrimp and french fries and buns
and mashed potatoes and gravy and
cole slaw,and we ate.she told me
how good she felt and I told her
how good I felt and we
ate the chicken and the shrimp and the
french fries and the buns and the
mashed potatoes and the gravy and
the cole slaw too."

Thanks for sharing. I hadn't seen this piece. Sweet, short and punchy. Almost similar to a Pablo Naruda vibe poetic. Appreciate your reply.

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. I was baptized so when I had my NDE and was being judged (already) it was pretty much all the apostles and Christ and G-d coming to visit me. (in reply to seducio)

It was very weird I can't describe it here exactly they where all there in name and action tho. And a few of my loved ones. PLUS my past self including in name so I could see the alternate paths my life could have taken.

I was given the choice to come back and I did. I'm not sure why I did it was foolish of me, because I could have died then and there.

Seducio you mention the many branching universes


the universe I came back into is way (and i mean clearly mandela effect in big way(s)) different than the one I left when I died to face judgement ---- from an athiestic perspective, that universe existed and is now ded, i believe it now exists without me that that branch now carries on without me and still exists with all the ppl in it, and that I simply jumped branches my conciousness was given that choice and G-d granted me this succor.

QM is a real funky thing if ur into athiesm, butt our choices, feelings, thoughts, words, deeds, imaginations, directly reflect in everything in reality. And I do believe that is by design. Our Ego is what keeps us from G-d. Yet that is by design aswell. (I believe because G-d wishes us to become more like him so that we may GROW and become /be independent AND also GOOD, not to replace him tho, in this way he will raise some of us up into a special position i forget what it is called to look after the NEXT universe, while the rest go to new jeruselem or heaven)

Tho I am flawed and cannot quote the scripture and explain this all in the detail it was explained to me, I take solace in that I can share this message with you and tell you that G-d has a WONDERFUL and GLORIOUS plan for all of us and we are free to live and partake in his plan.

Athiests would just say I have a limited consciousness or altered mental state and reality and my awareness is crumbling, I beg to differ tho. They would probably blame it on head trauma as that would be most likely.

I doubt it tho and I have much more faith in G-d then some head trauma that wouldn't make sense to be so exact in detail and purpose.

As for the golden rule, I do not want to torture or hurt this person so they are being cut lose to torture themselves. Until they can see the light of day and come into G-d's grace again.

Incredibly insightful and honest. I appreciate your perspective.

[arvidez]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

Mephistopheles("a certain snake, my near relation") was an expert on "how men torment themselves". if you had the choice to become smart as a god or to live forever(tree of knowledge and tree of life)...

the devil (us tormenting ourselves) chose knowledge (consciousness or EGO). with no ego there is no consciousness, there is no "I". choosing knowledge we chose death. we created the "I" that dies.

everyone knows there isnt really a bunny running around a tree and coming up through a hole, but it helps get the shoes tied. pointing out there is no bunny is kind of silly, no?

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by arvidez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mephistopheles("a certain snake, my near relation") was an expert on "how men torment themselves". if you had the choice to become smart as a god or to live forever(tree of knowledge and tree of life)...

the devil (us tormenting ourselves) chose knowledge (consciousness or EGO). with no ego there is no consciousness, there is no "I". choosing knowledge we chose death. we created the "I" that dies.

everyone knows there isnt really a bunny running around a tree and coming up through a hole, but it helps get the shoes tied. pointing out there is no bunny is kind of silly, no?

This is a really cool take and perspective. Forgive my lack of awareness but are there any stories about the Tree of Life similar to Adam and Eve re: Tree of Knowledge?

I always wanted to learn and hear more about the Life tree but perhaps I didn't know where to look or who to ask since everyone focuses on the Adam and Eve story.

[fivehundredyearwinter]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Put 100 random atheists in a room and test their individual belief structures via written test. The results might not look like they all believe the same thing. The atheists most likely would disagree with each other as much as they would with believers.

Put 100 random Christians in a room and test their individual belief structures via written test. The results might not look like they all believe the same thing. They would disagree with each other despite being all Christian. Hence there are all the different churches and sects of Christianity.

What you find is each individual human has a belief structure that differs enough that the label given cannot account for the complete world view that each human has.

As best as I can tell most humans that call themself Christian do it as virtue signal not as a matter of what they believe in their day to day behavior. Rather it is a signal to others in their community that they share the same beliefs so they can belong.

That Christian virtue signal use to carry more weight in USA than it currently does and so some folks are struggling on how to act in the current environment because it used to be simple to just be on the right team. It's harder to tell now. The Woke virtue signal is going through a similar mea culpa on the left as people are questioning whether that is the right team also.

Confirmation bias is the default for humans. The wiser among us attack our own beliefs with all we've got. Whatever survives is what was actually strong enough within us in the first place.

In the age of information I have awareness that the amount of information available is doubling at astronomical rate. If I were a Christian I wouldn't be worried about atheists. I would be worried about AI creating a better story of heaven.

My friend was brought up in a hypercalvinist sect that believes God has already chosen all who would be saved, and therefore there is no way to get into heaven through belief or conversion because God has already made the decision before the world was made.

Calvinists believe that there is an 'Elect' group of people who are pre-chosen to go to heaven, and they are revealed by doing good deeds that god makes himself obvious through. Now how do you know god makes himself obvious through a particular good deed? Because good things happen to you, maybe. In truth, Calvinists disagree on this, and what constitutes a 'good deed'. In some sects, simply praying a lot and accepting god and jesus is enough to be considered a 'good deed'.

Then you have Calvinists who also see baptism as a requirement to be saved, because an Elect in their view can still be damned by not being baptized or failing to do good deeds.

This brought some Calvinists into conflict with Catholics. Catholics believe good deeds are necessary to get into heaven and there's no pre-election. So it's Good Deeds Get You Into Heaven vs You Know You're Going To Heaven Because You Did Good Deeds And Saw God In Them.

and then

With the fractitious nature of Christianity, there's a signifcant subset of Calvinists who believe every other kind of Christian (especially Catholics) are going to Hell because they are not elect. So even dyed in the wool Christians who have done nothing but be charitable and kind are damned because they are not one of the Elect.


As for my family, they were Methodists and Catholics. Methodism is considered a Arminian doctrine branch of Protestantism. Arminians believe Jesus Christ died for the sins of all humanity, and there is no such thing as a special Elect because it goes against God's merciful nature.

Hell, there's some subsects of Aminians who believe anyone who is good in general and does good deeds is automatically going to some form of heaven. The Hindu man who spends 50 years of his life replanting an entire forest to help improve soil conditions, bring back endangered animals, and prevent flooding of his home village is just as heaven-bound as Cheryl who works at Kroger's and goes to church every Sunday.

But then you also need to know there's other branches of Christianity who believe that only belief in Jesus will spare you eternal damnation, and that any sin can be forgiven, and sincerely believe that Ted Bundy (who converted in jail) is more deserving of heaven than the hypothetical Hindu guy just because Ted Bundy believed in Jesus.


Note: While Dr. Dobson seemed to believe Ted was genuine in his conversion, others who interacted with Bundy in his final days believe it was less genuine and more Ted suddenly realizing he was about to die. One guard even said Ted's loud praying for 'everyone' seemed performative. If I remember right, Dobson himself later seemed to also have some doubts to Ted's sincerity, but ultimately decided it's all up to god's own mercy.

[Seducio]

It's almost as if each human that reads from texts that are categorized as 'divine texts' has their own interpretation of it. Is this why prior to the Reformation regular people who didn't know Latin were not able to read the Bible and interpret it themselves? Like it was a power move by the established church(es) at the time?

This reminds me that when I read about the correspondence and creation of the ideas that ended up in the US Constitution via the Federalist and Anti-Federalist paper debates.

Each of the thirteen (13) original colonies had a differing interpretation of what the Constitution meant to suit their specific geographical and economic needs at the time.

As in the multiple interpretations of the Constitution is seen as a feature and not a bug.

The colonies unanimously agreed to the Constitution even though all thirteen didn't agree on what it meant.