Shadow knight aggro

[Snaggles]

Are you really arguing +1 hate every 6 seconds is better than waiting for the exact instant it could be noticeably helpful?

IMHO, I’d pick better hills to die on.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you really arguing +1 hate every 6 seconds is better than waiting for the exact instant it could be noticeably helpful?

IMHO, I’d pick better hills to die on.

1. +1 hate every 6 seconds is better than +0 hate every 6 seconds. Something is better than nothing. You also have a chance of taunt working at the instant it is needed. If you never press the taunt button because you are too afraid of using it, this will never happen.

2. Taunt is unreliable. You should never assume it will work. Focus on using snap agro, which is reliable. If you can't build up an agro buffer on an SK, that is your problem. It isn't your skill at pressing taunt.

3. Taunt has a 6 second cooldown, so you can always switch your tactics as needed. Spam taunt whenever you want, and switch to using it strategically if the Rogue is taking agro all the time. If that is happening, however, you need to fix the problem of the Rogue always taking agro. The solution is not to rely on taunt to do the work.

4. I am not dying on any hills. It is simply trivial to rebut the argument that spamming taunt has no benefits. I've tanked for years on my SK, and I can't remember any scenario where I had a problem due to taunt being on cooldown when I lost agro. An experienced SK will use snap agro spells and positioning to keep agro. The issue is you are putting way too much emphasis on the idea that a well timed taunt is a reliable method of agro generation. It simply is not. That is why your argument falls apart. If taunt was reliable, we wouldn't be having endless discussions about Warrior agro issues.

[Gloomlord]

DSM has "tanked for years", yet somehow can't figure out why spamming taunt when it's already maxed out is a bad idea?

DSM, just stop giving advice already. You're embarrassing us all, and misleading newbies who might come into the game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM has "tanked for years", yet somehow can't figure out why spamming taunt when it's already maxed out is a bad idea?

DSM, just stop giving advice already. You're embarrassing us all, and misleading newbies who might come into the game.

Insulting people isn't an argument. You already have well over 400 posts that are just trolling, insults, and nonsense. That is over 80% of you post history. Will you ever post something useful on these forums?

You haven't explained your position at all. Please enlighten us as to why spammimg a skill with a 6 second cooldown and a low success rate is a bad idea. With a cooldown of only 6 seconds you can switch your taunt strategy whenever you want if you are losing agro a lot. You gain nothing from simply ignoring your taunt button and never pressing it.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Insulting people isn't an argument. You already have well over 400 posts that are just trolling, insults, and nonsense. That is over 80% of you post history. Will you ever post something useful on these forums?

You haven't explained your position at all. Please enlighten us as to why spammimg a skill with a 6 second cooldown and a low success rate is a bad idea. With a cooldown of only 6 seconds you can switch your taunt strategy whenever you want if you are losing agro a lot. You gain nothing from simply ignoring your taunt button and never pressing it.

If you’re “switching your taunt strategy”, you’ve already failed. You have no idea when you’ll need to switch, so just don’t do it. You can’t have it both ways. Spamming taunt has a much lower chance of being available when you actually need it. Getting +1 aggro every 6 seconds is effectively nothing as nobody is maintaining held aggro because of taunt spam. You should be conserving your APM to focus on things that actually matter.

I’ll add this to my list of bizarre theories this guy has put out.

[Danth]

The reason either utilization of Taunt works is because it's a minor ability for a shadowknight (or paladin) in the first place. You could take it off your ability bar entirely and you'd barely notice. It isn't fair to call taunt-spam unworkable when it's standard practice for pretty well all leveling tanks who need to spam it to level the skill. At the same time, it's ineffective for anything *but* leveling the skill since +1 aggro (when the tank already has aggro) is next-to-nothing and meaningless in practice. Pushing it when you have maxed skill amounts to, more or less, doing something because you want to feel like you're doing something. It doesn't hurt, but isn't helping either.

For my part I regard taunt as typically not worth the button press except where I'm using it to even up aggro on a mezzed mob or for peeling something someone else had a large threat lead on. Even in those types of situations I never *count* on it working--it's just a nice bonus, when it works. Same for the rare occasions an overzealous group member or partner might pull aggro--sure I'll hit taunt, but I'm also casting proper high-threat spells, and never assuming taunt will work. Nice when it does, but that is all. A knight doesn't need taunt for holding threat, and if he does, he's a poor knight.

Some tank players will macro disarm and beg together for whatever little threat it generates.

(edit) Just don't keep mashing taunt when you're not the only tank present, and not supposed to be the one mainly getting hit. Sometimes it can be an issue with freshly-leveled tanks used to mashing it. Constantly ping-ponging aggro gets annoying in a hurry. I presume everyone reading these posts already knows this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason either utilization of Taunt works is because it's a minor ability for a shadowknight (or paladin) in the first place. You could take it off your ability bar entirely and you'd barely notice.
...

Exacltly. Everything you said is correct in your full post. The only disagreement I have here is spamming taunt does give you a chance to taunt at the right time without effort. So it isn't completely ineffective. But we both agree taunt isn't relaible anyway, so it's just a small bonus chance of doing something.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you’re “switching your taunt strategy”, you’ve already failed. You have no idea when you’ll need to switch, so just don’t do it. You can’t have it both ways. Spamming taunt has a much lower chance of being available when you actually need it. Getting +1 aggro every 6 seconds is effectively nothing as nobody is maintaining held aggro because of taunt spam. You should be conserving your APM to focus on things that actually matter.

I’ll add this to my list of bizarre theories this guy has put out.

Yes, if you need to rely on taunt you have failed. That is what I have been saying the entire time.

You can put taunt, disarm, beg, and slam/bash on the same macro for regular fights when you aren't trying to interrupt spells or deal with mezed mobs. It saves you APM and gives you a chance to taunt at the right time. Just spam it and generate all the hate you can, while giving yourself a chance to taunt at the right time. Just use a different macro page if you need to separate slam/bash and make a macro for just taunt/beg/disarm if you want to frontload agro into a mezed mob. Or always keep them separate if it doesn't bother you to press 2 buttons instead of 1.

Saying that spamming taunt is somehow going to put you in a situation where not having it for 2 seconds is a going to be a major problem is really silly lol. I have never been in a situation where having taunt on cooldown was a problem. This is because taunt isn't a skill you rely on in the first place.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason either utilization of Taunt works is because it's a minor ability for a shadowknight (or paladin) in the first place. You could take it off your ability bar entirely and you'd barely notice. It isn't fair to call taunt-spam unworkable when it's standard practice for pretty well all leveling tanks who need to spam it to level the skill. At the same time, it's ineffective for anything *but* leveling the skill since +1 aggro (when the tank already has aggro) is next-to-nothing and meaningless in practice. Pushing it when you have maxed skill amounts to, more or less, doing something because you want to feel like you're doing something. It doesn't hurt, but isn't helping either.

For my part I regard taunt as typically not worth the button press except where I'm using it to even up aggro on a mezzed mob or for peeling something someone else had a large threat lead on. Even in those types of situations I never *count* on it working--it's just a nice bonus, when it works. Same for the rare occasions an overzealous group member or partner might pull aggro--sure I'll hit taunt, but I'm also casting proper high-threat spells, and never assuming taunt will work. Nice when it does, but that is all. A knight doesn't need taunt for holding threat, and if he does, he's a poor knight.

Some tank players will macro disarm and beg together for whatever little threat it generates.

(edit) Just don't keep mashing taunt when you're not the only tank present, and not supposed to be the one mainly getting hit. Sometimes it can be an issue with freshly-leveled tanks used to mashing it. Constantly ping-ponging aggro gets annoying in a hurry. I presume everyone reading these posts already knows this.

like i said way back , taunt is great for +1 when you arent the main tank and re establishing threat as you havent began to cast 30x into the mob. the +1 can help you get up before you start spamming spells. spamming taunt is dumb. its a case use thing to help establish your threat if you werent the one tanking first, otherwise knights aint losing it.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Insulting people isn't an argument. You already have well over 400 posts that are just trolling, insults, and nonsense. That is over 80% of you post history. Will you ever post something useful on these forums?

Imagine if I didn't engage you on that thread before -- I wonder what stupid excuse you would have used instead? Getting pretty tiresome you bringing that up, because noone else cares about that fact but you.

Only reason you bring it up is some vain attempt at an insult whilst trying to create the illusion you have the moral high ground...in your own mind.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine if I didn't engage you on that thread before -- I wonder what stupid excuse you would have used instead? Getting pretty tiresome you bringing that up, because noone else cares about that fact but you.

Only reason you bring it up is some vain attempt at an insult whilst trying to create the illusion you have the moral high ground...in your own mind.

I am just calling you out for the troll you are. If you are getting tired of people exposing your trolling, the solution is to stop trolling.

Stick to the topic at hand and explain why you think I am wrong. It's really that simple.