Oops, TMO's/Taken mistake.

[Waedawen]

Lovin' this thread.

Anarchy raid rules plz.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Not that simple Yendor. It ends when they quit acting like they do. It isn't our actions that caused them to do anything, they chose to do this from the start. It is fallacy to say anyone else is the cause of any of this. You don't want this nonsense, they can quit creating the situation. We planned sky around Noble Dojorn spawn time with the intent of pulling him when he spawned. TMO arrives on scene and tell us their intent, we work a compromise. To avoid sitting a raid on a spawn point like a 8 year old and saying 'MINE". TR ports up, sits 40 some people on Dojorns spawn then informs us all they're taking Dojorn OOA and Hand so there ya go. And sit there for 3 or 4 hours.

The 'rule' was made because guilds couldn't cooperate and ganked each other's KoS or PoS or whatever. So two guilds decide to work together in the spirit of fair play and common sense and not play the game like some 5th graders and you know, I suggested to Kinsawt perhaps we could take dojorn and they could take OOA and the answer was 'MINE'. So what you are telling me is you would rather have this leapfrogging sniping poopsocking state that exists rather then risk angering TR? Fuck TR. Everyone wants change except TR, what don't you get. They force people into situations by acting like dicks. If They REALLY wanted change they would have either not zoned up when they saw both us guilds there, or worked out a compromise where each guild got one of the efreeti, or a chance at them.

It baffles me you cannot see this, their actions and the actions of others created the situation that created the rules. The 'rules' that only serve to enable the same behavior.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not that simple Yendor...

I know the fact that they plop right down on Dojorn's spawn point and poopsock him for 3-4 hours sucks, but how does it make you in the right to then break the rules and snipe OoA from them?

I don't claim to have an answer for the poopsocking. We have been told time and time again that "if you want the kill, you gotta put in the time." It sounds like you made the decision to do the rest of Sky at the opportunity cost of leaving Isle 1.5 open for TR to come in and sit at the spawn point.

But what I don't understand is how you can say the things you say in the other thread when we were asking them to stop being douchebags all the time, then you go decide that two wrongs make a right, stoop to their level, and blatantly snipe their spawned mob?

What is the point of having some semblance of raiding rules so people know what the expectations are, if no one fucking follows them nor gets held accountable for not following them? The GMs have better shit to do, I'm sure. Like turning me into a unicorn.

[TR Spokesman]

so when are we doing this VD/TR super-merger?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by TR Spokesman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so when are we doing this VD/TR super-merger?

As soon as hanging out by a batphone all day/night until we get the call to log in for 10 minutes to snipe a dragon from another guild, or getting ordered to sit around Trak's lair spam-clicking Target Nearest NPC/Range Attack for hours and hours sounds one bit appealing to us.

Yeah, no thanks.

[TR Spokesman]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As soon as hanging out by a batphone all day/night until we get the call to log in for 10 minutes to snipe a dragon from another guild, or getting ordered to sit around Trak's lair spam-clicking Target Nearest NPC/Range Attack for hours and hours sounds one bit appealing to us.

Yeah, no thanks.

you'd poopsock DA idol for days, but not trakanon for a few hours?

[Eabon]

This is the first time I've ever posted on a thread like this, and I'm quite positive I'm going to regret it.

Taken went up to Sky at around 7 or 8PM EST; TMO went up to Sky at around 8 or 9PM EST. As it turns out, both guilds had planned to raid their usual haunts in Sky in anticipation of the Noble spawning and then make a move for the Noble cycle. As soon as TMO arrived in Sky, we talked with Taken to find out what their aims were, and shared with them our own. We talked through it a little bit, and came to an agreement as to how we could divy out the Efreeti's.

I'm not saying in any way that the fact that TMO and Taken had made an agreement automatically prohibits any other guild from expressing interest in the mobs, I'm merely demonstrating that diplomacy can work, and that there are options besides showing up, sitting around expectantly, and insisting that your guild gets all the mobs and all the loot. Different guilds have different capabilities and different goals. Very often if you just put just a little bit of effort into talking like adults, everybody wins.

Approximately an hour after TMO and TR have come to an understanding, some time between 9 and 10PM EST I believe, TR enters the zone and proceeds to Isle 1.5 where they place their entire raid force outside/inside Noble's tower (I wasn't there, so I have no idea where exactly they camped). A short time after this, Kinsawt expresses in OOC his intent to claim all three Efreeti's (Noble Dojorn, Overseer of Air, The Hand of Veeshan).
So, there we have it. In the space of 30-60 minutes Plane of Sky goes from hosting an amicable agreement between two competitive guilds to hosting a pretty intense poopsocking session. All talks with Kinsawt break down. Clearly, as is abundantly evidenced by the Uthgaard-Kinsawt-Zeelot logs, he is not prepared to compromise. I send him a tell, making the observation that there are three guilds here and three efreetis. I then go on to make the obvious suggestion that perhaps it's going to be the best situation for all involved if each guild had a single Efreeti? I get nothing but a nonsensical non-answer back.

TR is the guild who has said that they want above anything to avoid poopsocking.
TR is the guild who has said that in order to prevent poopsocking they are all for talking and coming to agreements before things get messy

All actions displayed by TR today blatantly contradict these prior positions.

[Alarti0001]

Eabon.. you are doing it wrong... this is RnF

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Eabon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TR is the guild who has said that they want above anything to avoid poopsocking.
TR is the guild who has said that in order to prevent poopsocking they are all for talking and coming to agreements before things get messy

All actions displayed by TR today blatantly contradict these prior positions.

Not saying it wasn't a dick move by TR, but you would have a lot more ground to stand on from a moral perspective if you didn't snipe the OoA they spawned. Instead, it was just immature retaliation. "Well, they didn't want to come to an agreement so we just took what we thought was ours, F them."

Please help me understand how two wrongs make a right in this situation?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know the fact that they plop right down on Dojorn's spawn point and poopsock him for 3-4 hours sucks, but how does it make you in the right to then break the rules and snipe OoA from them?

I don't claim to have an answer for the poopsocking. We have been told time and time again that "if you want the kill, you gotta put in the time." It sounds like you made the decision to do the rest of Sky at the opportunity cost of leaving Isle 1.5 open for TR to come in and sit at the spawn point.

But what I don't understand is how you can say the things you say in the other thread when we were asking them to stop being douchebags all the time, then you go decide that two wrongs make a right, stoop to their level, and blatantly snipe their spawned mob?

What is the point of having some semblance of raiding rules so people know what the expectations are, if no one fucking follows them nor gets held accountable for not following them? The GMs have better shit to do, I'm sure. Like turning me into a unicorn.

The raid rules get changed to suit purposes.....15 man spawn pt camping is supposed to be done according to a GM, and also according to an agreement between TR and TMO... cause really who wants to poopsock.

But then a gm broadcasts that rules are as posted on forums, and that gm never changed the rules on the forums.... what are we supposed to follow. Rules are brought up and bandied about anytime TR wants a loot. TMO just wants to play FTE.