Ok Thanksgiving is over.

[Rhaj]

I laugh at people who love EQ PVP. I am not sure if thats the only PVP they have experienced or what, but EQ PVP sucks compared to real games that were made for PVP. Trying to insult people because they play EQ for PVE just makes me laugh considering that's what it was designed for.

Red with be a much smaller server in 3 months than blue. Have fun killing the same 10 people over and over with no real rewards system in place.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Rhaj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I laugh at people who love EQ PVP. I am not sure if thats the only PVP they have experienced or what, but EQ PVP sucks compared to real games that were made for PVP. Trying to insult people because they play EQ for PVE just makes me laugh considering that's what it was designed for.

Red with be a much smaller server in 3 months than blue. Have fun killing the same 10 people over and over with no real rewards system in place.

I dunno - I think it'll last longer than that and plenty of people will play there for a long time - but I think eventually there will be a core group of mostly VZTZ guys and some others.

I wouldn't discount how well managed blue99 and red99 are - that counts for a lot.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by Rhaj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I laugh at people who love EQ PVP. I am not sure if thats the only PVP they have experienced or what, but EQ PVP sucks compared to real games that were made for PVP. Trying to insult people because they play EQ for PVE just makes me laugh considering that's what it was designed for.

Red with be a much smaller server in 3 months than blue. Have fun killing the same 10 people over and over with no real rewards system in place.

Why does EQ PvP suck compared to games that were designed with pvp in mind? Are you referring to class balance issues?

The classes in EQ were clearly never intended to be balanced, even in PvE. You don't see untwinked warriors and rogues running around soloing pve content, right? It's the same thing for pvp. EQ set out to be a group-oriented game, and this shows quite clearly in both pve and pvp. It's great! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you're referring to the fact that EQ PvP has no clear-cut reward system, you're so far from "getting it." EQ is the perfect pvp game, and it's because it was designed with pve in mind. It's all about player interaction, and with the simple idea of a persistent world (no instancing), we're given incentive to pvp. Because the content is limited, and we need access to that content to progress our characters, we have all the reason in the world to kill each other.

All the MMOs I've played that were designed with pvp in mind were pretty terrible in the pvp department. Games like WoW and Aion were so disappointing (even though Aion had the best fashion in any game ever and OMG ANGEL WINGSS!!). They took pvp and added all these hard-coded rules and limitations to it, even going so far as to cut off your communication with half of the people you're playing with. Then they tried to force meaning into the pvp by adding rewards for doing well, and add instances that try really hard to make MMO PvP into a FPS experience.

"Kill x many bad guys, or win x many capture the flag (????) matches, and show proof of this to Warlord Whoever for a nice shiny thing."

It all feels so synthetic. Don't you feel it in pve, too? In those games, there's really only one way to play. Every WoW server is exactly the same as every other, even the RP and PvP servers. Casual guilds are given x content, hardcore guilds are given y content. The number of players in a raid is dictated, there is no competition because everything is instanced.

I play EQ for the social interactions, and because of this I like that it's something of a sandbox game. We're not forced into playing as anyone has decided we should. This really shows in the pvp servers, which were all vastly different from one another on live. And I don't mean the rulesets, I mean the way the communities behaved. Even VZ and TZ, which had the same exact rules as decided by Verant (once VZ lost item loot) were vastly different. Guild politics govern the PvP servers, and it's all stuff we ourselves make up as we go along. We help to shape it and it impacts us all greatly.

And we decide who we want to be on these servers. We can be an evil menace, feared by all. Or a true white knight, protector of the weak and savior of the noobs. Or something in between hehe. I even successfully roleplayed a pacifist on VZ.

This thread should probably be moved lol.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does EQ PvP suck compared to games that were designed with pvp in mind? Are you referring to class balance issues?

The classes in EQ were clearly never intended to be balanced, even in PvE. You don't see untwinked warriors and rogues running around soloing pve content, right? It's the same thing for pvp. EQ set out to be a group-oriented game, and this shows quite clearly in both pve and pvp. It's great! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you're referring to the fact that EQ PvP has no clear-cut reward system, you're so far from "getting it." EQ is the perfect pvp game, and it's because it was designed with pve in mind. It's all about player interaction, and with the simple idea of a persistent world (no instancing), we're given incentive to pvp. Because the content is limited, and we need access to that content to progress our characters, we have all the reason in the world to kill each other.

All the MMOs I've played that were designed with pvp in mind were pretty terrible in the pvp department. Games like WoW and Aion were so disappointing (even though Aion had the best fashion in any game ever and OMG ANGEL WINGSS!!). They took pvp and added all these hard-coded rules and limitations to it, even going so far as to cut off your communication with half of the people you're playing with. Then they tried to force meaning into the pvp by adding rewards for doing well, and add instances that try really hard to make MMO PvP into a FPS experience.

you try to say this failed, but what these games were really doing was copying one of the most successful pvp mmo's of all time: dark age of camelot. you couldn't communicate with anyone outside of your faction, and there were real consequences for your faction if everyone refused to participate in pvp. you'd lose control of darkness falls and your relics would be stolen. also, there were lots of hard coded rules. on the vast majority of servers (only mordred was the exception) you could attack only members of an opposing faction, and only in a frontier, where everyone came for mutual, consentual pvp.

all things considered, daoc was probably the most carebear pvp game to ever exist. it was also one of the most successful. games are still trying to recapture its formula and harness that player base.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does EQ PvP suck compared to games that were designed with pvp in mind? Are you referring to class balance issues?

The classes in EQ were clearly never intended to be balanced, even in PvE. You don't see untwinked warriors and rogues running around soloing pve content, right? It's the same thing for pvp. EQ set out to be a group-oriented game, and this shows quite clearly in both pve and pvp. It's great! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you're referring to the fact that EQ PvP has no clear-cut reward system, you're so far from "getting it." EQ is the perfect pvp game, and it's because it was designed with pve in mind. It's all about player interaction, and with the simple idea of a persistent world (no instancing), we're given incentive to pvp. Because the content is limited, and we need access to that content to progress our characters, we have all the reason in the world to kill each other.

All the MMOs I've played that were designed with pvp in mind were pretty terrible in the pvp department. Games like WoW and Aion were so disappointing (even though Aion had the best fashion in any game ever and OMG ANGEL WINGSS!!). They took pvp and added all these hard-coded rules and limitations to it, even going so far as to cut off your communication with half of the people you're playing with. Then they tried to force meaning into the pvp by adding rewards for doing well, and add instances that try really hard to make MMO PvP into a FPS experience.

"Kill x many bad guys, or win x many capture the flag (????) matches, and show proof of this to Warlord Whoever for a nice shiny thing."

It all feels so synthetic. Don't you feel it in pve, too? In those games, there's really only one way to play. Every WoW server is exactly the same as every other, even the RP and PvP servers. Casual guilds are given x content, hardcore guilds are given y content. The number of players in a raid is dictated, there is no competition because everything is instanced.

I play EQ for the social interactions, and because of this I like that it's something of a sandbox game. We're not forced into playing as anyone has decided we should. This really shows in the pvp servers, which were all vastly different from one another on live. And I don't mean the rulesets, I mean the way the communities behaved. Even VZ and TZ, which had the same exact rules as decided by Verant (once VZ lost item loot) were vastly different. Guild politics govern the PvP servers, and it's all stuff we ourselves make up as we go along. We help to shape it and it impacts us all greatly.

And we decide who we want to be on these servers. We can be an evil menace, feared by all. Or a true white knight, protector of the weak and savior of the noobs. Or something in between hehe. I even successfully roleplayed a pacifist on VZ.

This thread should probably be moved lol.

UO: Game with PvP in mind and there werent any blue servers....anywhere. Until they came out with the gateways for Trammel and Felucca. UO was probably the best MMO PvP oriented game of all time imo. PvP was extremely exciting in group situations too. You never knew what to expect when toying around in a dungeon solo or with your friends.

[Guitarzan]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

UO: Game with PvP in mind and there werent any blue servers....anywhere. Until they came out with the gateways for Trammel and Felucca. UO was probably the best MMO PvP oriented game of all time imo. PvP was extremely exciting in group situations too. You never knew what to expect when toying around in a dungeon solo or with your friends.

yep.

[Vondra]

Though it's fine to not want to play on the pvp server, I don't see any reason to tell people that do that they're somehow wrong for doing so.

If for whatever reason they are fine with the community and like eq pvp...well it's a game and there's a server for it so why not.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Though it's fine to not want to play on the pvp server, I don't see any reason to tell people that do that they're somehow wrong for doing so.

If for whatever reason they are fine with the community and like eq pvp...well it's a game and there's a server for it so why not.

Its vice versa. All the "red" players try and tell all the "blues" theyre wrong for playing on a blue server. Blues dont care what reds do but reds seem to care what blues does.

[vincin]

well, recent Project 1999 polls show that people who play on the PvP server are 50% more likely to be mentally challenged. Im not telling anyone not to play the PvP, but if you do, it tells me that there is a 50% chance that you might be a little slow.