Occupy Wall Street - Success

[pickled_heretic]

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

LOL TAXES ARE HARD THATS WHY ITS OKAY FOR CORPORATIONS TO AVOID 100% OF THEIR TAX OBLIGATIONS

[Shiftin]

I'm trying to speak in general terms. If you don't like companies getting incentives for "going green" because it's not economically practical without incentives, that's fine. Personally, I don't either. You don't like the way our tax treaties work? That's cool too. I can dig it. Let's talk about those things like human beings.

How about we talk about a national VAT like every other modern country in the world has at this point? That way, you can greatly reduce the individual and corporate tax rates which are so easily manipulated and have the tax revenues be derived at the point of consumption of a good or service.

No? rather talk about GE and it's specific case that is fun to quote over and over?
You can tax GE 100% of it's worldwide earnings and it wouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of the budget. Think beyond zero level talking points.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No? rather talk about GE and it's specific case that is fun to quote over and over?
You can tax GE 100% of it's worldwide earnings and it wouldn't matter at all in the grand scheme of the budget. Think beyond zero level talking points.

you think GE is the only firm that is getting away with this? you are wrong... we only know some cases like GE, SC Johnson etc. because they are have corporate offices in states states where their financial information must be made public. legislated tax evasion takes place in virtually every corporation, whether the corporation literally funds the legislative effort itself or simply hires tax lawyers to exploit laws that are already on the books.

you can't trust the legislative process to fix any of this because the legislative process in many cases is what started it. who can you trust? the corporations? when can you ever trust a person to pay more taxes than they are required? our elected officials? nonsense, in many cases they were elected principally via large donations from corporate entities.

there's no purpose to think beyond "zero level talking points" because if the system is flawed on a fundamental level it doesn't matter how much shit you stack on a shitty foundation.

[Aadill]

oh and shiftin i'll use my ignorance of the details of that particular example to prove two points:

1) I don't have a CPA. I don't own enough to make that a priority. the concept however remains at point: not enough people can know about it because no one speaks up which leads to point 2:

2) the point of the occupation (which includes these forums and threads, now) is to have an open discussion. it's not about agreeing or disagreeing with a single message that can fit on a bumper sticker, it's about discussing the problems. thanks for the enlightenment. i never owe on taxes and end up taking the standard deduction which results in a few extra bucks per year. sometimes i get a $1.00 check. I got $15.00 once. I don't shake the tax code books to find the prize like it's a box of cracker jacks

[Shiftin]

I think the trademark stuff is a really interesting case, absolutely. It seems more like a state issue than a federal issue but I'd like to see more about it. The article suffers from the last section where it seems they can't and won't identify what it's actually costing them though. I'd like to see some more hard research. There are plenty of small and symbolic things you could change in the tax code to make people feel warm and fuzzy. My overall point is that those things don't really matter and it's confusing for people to take to the streets to fight for them instead of more concrete and meaningful changes.


I'm not trying to say that there aren't laws and riders to laws, and addendums that got slipped in at the last minute that don't grant special benefits to people all over the place. I *hate* the current rules of congress. I know firsthand how 1 politician can screw an entire industry to satisfy his donors when the UIGEA was officially added by Bill Frist to a bill about port defense literally minutes before it got voted on. I'm totally with you guys on the need for more transparency. Fight those fights and stay on message. Trust me, people will get behind you. Just don't take a scattershot approach at everything that has money, that isn't productive.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just don't take a scattershot approach at everything that has money, that isn't productive.

Agreed.


See what I did there?

[Aadill]

Just started reading this..

http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/...y-wall-street/

This is important because I think this is what Occupy Wall Street is right now: less of a movement and more of a space. It is a space in which people who feel a similar frustration with the world as it is and as it has been, are coming together and thinking about ways to recreate this world. For some people this is the first time they have thought about how the world needs to be recreated. But some of us have been thinking about this for a while now. Does this mean that those of us who have been thinking about it for a while now should discredit this movement? No. It just means that there is a lot of learning going on down there and that there is a lot of teaching to be done.

[roks1]

• Capitalism is a crime.
  -- k, it's definitely capitalism that's being protested, not inequality... jeje?
• All people regardless of job, longevity, performance or amount of work done now make the same wage.
  *****This includes those with the job ‘homeless’, ‘hobo’, or ‘neckbeard’.
  -- op hates equality
• College education is now free for all people.
  -- op hates education
• All debt is wiped off the books and forgiven.
  *****Including credit cards, mortgages, home equity loans, student loans, personal loans and that $5 that I owe John.
  -- op has child's understanding on government debt
• Government health care is provided for all people
  -- op thinks voters are not interested in having healthcare despite evidence on the contrary (Medicare appeared out of thin air, it's true!)
  *****All those in the insurance industry have been reassigned to be janitors at local high schools
  -- op loves 3rd party payers, as they are clearly involved in medical care and the medical profession and should be treated as such... one moment while I contact Aetna to schedule my checkup at the insurance agency.
• All forms of border constraints have been removed and anyone can travel anywhere at any time. Immigration is no longer a consideration as citizenship now means nothing.
  -- op thinks that arbitrary lines that change over the course of history should dictate a human being's ability to move around the globe... op clearly not a citizen of the world.
• All elections will be done via paper ballot and counted 35 times by ‘trusted’ officials.
  -- op believes that blacks and illegals are the only fraud in elections.
• All drugs are now legal and encouraged to use.
  -- op thinks it has the authority to tell other adults how to treat themselves.
  
• All exports and imports are deemed evil and are banned permanently.
  -- op clearly lives in Middle Earth
• All campaigns are publically financed
  -- op doesn't believe in democracy, because people would fund someone they don't support, in a democracy...
• The military is now disbanded
  -- op is threatened militarily from rowdy canadians.
• 1 Trillion dollars in immediate spending for public works projects
  -- op does not recall any recovery to have taken place during any time after a depression... history is boring.
• All property is now community property.
  -- op doesn't want other people to use it's toilet
• Oil and natural gas is now banned from use. Solar and Wind energy are the only acceptable forms of energy generation.
  -- op has a bumper sticker stating "For every hummer you sell, i will buy 3" with an accompanying "and keep them running!" sticker alongside... also truck nuts. op wonders if oil is generated spontaneously.
• Any company with more than 5 employees is considered an evil corporation and will be dismantled.
  -- op has a clear understanding of how incorporating a business works, involving deals with the devil and a ouija board.
• Shopping and consumerism is forbidden, the government will distribute food and supplies to all people in an equal and just manner.
  -- op has infomercials on in the background while posting, in defiance of anti-consumerist attitudes. op has a poster of billy mays in it's living room. op disregards all religious and philosophical warnings about gluttony. op does not want to share.

Effective tax rate for all people are now 95.2% and the last act of the military is to round up all people with more than $1M of net worth to be jailed indefinitely for crimes against humanity stemming from having possessions that others do not have. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
-- http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisc...20Brackets.pdf
--

[Shiftin]

At the end of the day, that's why my life goal is to have enough to "retire" from financial services at 45 and go back to teach personal finance to high school kids. Anything I can do to educate kids about money before they go out and screw up their lives and society because they don't understand it is a huge win.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At the end of the day, that's why my life goal is to have enough to "retire" from financial services at 45 and go back to teach personal finance to high school kids. Anything I can do to educate kids about money before they go out and screw up their lives and society because they don't understand it is a huge win.

the last thing the next generation needs is an education from the current education. each generation is left further and further in debt, with more individual liberties being sucked away by the establishment. and then the cycle is repeated. the LAST people we need teaching them is people like you.