Raid Changes

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Pikle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hasbin I had a long post.. ... ..on naggy or something [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for taking your time.
I hear what you're saying and agree with your spirit, but as I have detailed in other posts, a variance solution will not work for a number of reasons.

Here is one of them.

Here is another.

If variance is implemented, even should it be a 7 day variance, I do not put it past anyone that you would have GuildA kill nagafen and then GuildA starts a 15 person rotation IMMEDIATELY UPON THE KILL which by the rules as they stand means they have a legit claim on the next nagafen if they keep 15 people in the camp the entire time. This might seem ludicrous, but trans is a zerg guild. They have the numbers and they have shown the initiative to camp these bosses for ridiculous amounts of time already. If they really step up recruiting, who is to say they won't have 15man rotations in perma and solb at all times? ..and who is to say <Bear Jews> won't hold the camp for us? It really brings us back to square one when you look at the inevitable result of BOTH raid forces being in the spawn FROM THE TIME A RAID MOB DIES TO THE TIME HE SPAWNS AGAIN. Do we really want that? ..and if it happens, we are literally back to the same place we are at now.

[Pikle]

DrpLump I like your suggestions. I honestly think with all that everyone has said we could come up with a viable option that suits all the players on this server. And I don't think it should be just up to the IB and Trans people, what about any up and coming guilds who may have to alter their plans because of this rule. Personally I will start recruiting more wizards or druids if we need to mobilize fast. Or if we can go inside a zone and claim a mob, I will get a ton of rogues and monks to sit at the mob and wait.

Naerron has some good suggestions. Perhaps we should organize a group of people with representatives of all types to help solve the issue?

[Dabamf]

Solution to prevent guild-stacking for numbers:

A guild can only camp and claim one raid mob at a time. If they wanna sit at naggy for 48 hours, they can claim it, but can't have another 15 people at Vox doing the same thing. Require raid leader to message other guild, or a game-wide /ooc by raid leader announcing the claim (more transparency).

Add the proposed variance spawn times suggested in the OP.

Add a 2 hour limit from the time the boss mob spawns to the end of the claim. The 2 hours can officially start when the competing guild messages the camping guild in zone-wide /shout and says "I see naggy has spawned, 2 hours starting now." This allows secrecy still (game-wide shouts "NAGGY SPAWNED!" is stupid), and requires the competing guild to still pay attention if they wanna put pressure on the camping guild.

Claim to mobs is as follows:
(1)Nagafen: First guild with 15 in zone AND having engaged a FG.
(2)Vox: suggestions, I'm not that familiar with her
(3)CT: (a) Unbroken fear: First to break fear aka first to kill 4 mobs (number change suggestions are welcome) with 12 people present. (b) Broken fear: First with 18 in zone.

This allows: (1)Each guild gets a shot at one mob a week that they really wanna raid, and the most dedicated get their choice of mob. (2) 2 hour limit puts pressure on camping guild, requiring speed, organization, skill, and preventing dummy camps (players afk sleeping while camping) somewhat. (3)requiring the competing guild to announce the start of the 2 hours upon boss spawn puts pressure on the competing guild to officially document the time limit and they have to pay attention. (4) the better guild still ends up with more raid mobs.

So here's an example:
Transc has more people on and zones into solb anticipating a naggy spawn in the next day or 2. Once 15 arrive in zone and after a FG has been engaged they announce in /ooc or aliz messages Otto saying "naggy spawn claimed." Transc can have 20 other people at vox or CT but they cannot claim rights to the spawn, only 1 raid mob at a time. IB decides to camp Vox (or really do ANYTHING they want to do because they know Transc can't claim other raid mobs). IB has a tracker periodically checking to see if naggy has spawned yet. Naggy spawns, and IB announces in solb /shout "I see naggy spawned, it's 6pm, 2 hours start now." Then lets say Vox spawns, IB kills her and rushes to solb. They wait at the start to FG area until 8pm, at which point if naggy is not dead yet, they are free to run in and engage provided naggy is not currently agro'd.

[Takshaka]

Originally Posted by Dabamf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild can only camp and claim one raid mob at a time.

Add the proposed variance spawn times suggested in the OP.

Add a 2 hour limit from the time the boss mob spawns to the end of the claim.

I really think that this is the best solution yet. Someone said that this system will be exploited as well and that it will not work. If this system will not work please state why you think it will not work. What kind of sneakyness have you already thought of that is not covered by what Dabamf has already stated?(be sure to read the whole post) If we can think of loopholes now it we can include fixes for those loopholes.

This system could be largely enforced by the players, however repeated ignoring of the rules would probably ultimately require GM action. If sufficient proof* can be shown that a guild has been ignoring the rules (ie spawn camping two raid mobs, or not giving the guild that has camped a raid mob the 2 hour window to kill it) then the entire guild *read entire guild, not just the members directly involved* should get something like a 7 day IP ban. And that 7 day IP ban should be 7 days of server up time. so if some ass clown cannot decide to DDoS the server to prevent others from playing while they are temp banned.

*I would define sufficient proof as fraps videos or similar. screenshots can be photoshoped far too easily. True, videos can be faked as well, but it is a lot more difficult.

[Takshaka]

Ok, in order to pevent this(<Bear Jews> Recuiting!

Simple add another rule that a guild cannot engage another raid mob while camping or engaging any other raid mob.

Furthermore, if a guild gives up their camp for another guild over and over again, it will be seen that both guilds are abusing the rules and both would suffer from 7 day ban?

[Supreme]

Oh..btw Wonton.

Its hard to clear the zone when there is not a CT to charm and kill everything for you.

Oh and fear does still work on CT on this server.

[Zarniwooop]

Ahh yes.

Bringing out the 11-year old in all of us.

[Supreme]

You now have 21 hours left to play.

[Rifter]

Completely unbiased opinion here.

This is a case of GMs stepping into an area they don't have cause to...yet. Unless someone can give me an example of why this was necessary that involves either guild doing something against the rules to get a spawn GMs have absolutely no business enforcing a raid schedule between guilds. Even if training or whatnot is involved it has to be an extremely serious situation for a GM to even consider doing such a thing.

People can complain all they want about competition for spawns, this is Everquest, deal with it. Let the players play FFS.

Post Edit thought: The ONLY time a GM should have any say on the claim of a spawn is when there are two or more actual guilds IN FORCE competing for it, right there on the spot. For a GM to mandate the spawns for the entire server is lunacy.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Rifter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ONLY time a GM should have any say on the claim of a spawn is when there are two or more actual guilds IN FORCE competing for it, right there on the spot.

That is exactly what happened.