Class selection guide draft

[falkun]

But by that logic ANY player will have 60 levels of practice on whatever character they choose. Loraen's guide shows, to the best of his ability, what a class is CAPABLE of. You can still have complete morons and absolute gods that will take a class to the extremely horrible and great, respectively.

With respect to taking more enchanters in groups. The only 2 spots in a group I wouldn't give to Enchanters (in a 6-man group) is the healer (torpor sham or cleric) and bard (me, because I'd want in). 4 ENC with hasted pets are going to outdps e'rybody. And if Alarti wants to come in here and talk about Avatar and PE, let the shaman toss that on the pet (and pray it doesn't destroy the enc when it breaks).

[Invurnus]

Very cool idea. I must say it's a bit disheartening to see wizzies as the worst overall class at 60 (non-raid). I told myself I was going to pick the class that was the most interesting to me, practicality be damned, but I can't help but QQ a little at that. Probably pretty accurate though, as even at 29 resists really sap the class' DPS.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Grouping okay, a good enchanters is amazing in a group.. fact is though, imagine having a group and already having 1 enchanter.. would you fill your spot with a second enchanter? how bout a third?.. I know I'd do that with rogues, or warriors, or maybe even mages.. I don't know about enchanters.. They have a risk associated with their charm pets, that is if it breaks and they take a bad round they could wipe the group..

On a raid enchanters are buffbots and then useless.. Ask them, They have VERY specific roles on certain encounters, and afterwards they're deathtouch fodder.. How about dragon raids.. After they c2 and haste the raid.. what's their role? Understand, I know necros are about the same.. but still, I'd much rather have an additional wizard/rogue on a raid than an additional enchanter..

Soloing, Everyone has different strengths.. Show me an enchanter that can charm solo a mob that chain dispels.. A necro could fear kite it, a shaman could slow it, tank it and dot it.. Different strengths..

In specific situations different classes excel, and most classes can do things that every other class can't.. Likewise, Player skill has a HUGE impact on how well they can do things..

With the proper player behind a necro they could rival an enchanter in soloability, with the proper player behind a bard, they could too.. That's why I say.. To each their own..

Chanters and shamans are clearly the overall alpha class of the game currently. Sure chanters may just sit there once they have buffed on a dragon encounter, but imagine that raid force without chanter buffs. Those buffs are huge. As for groups id almost always take additional enchanters to fill dps slots over wizards/rogues. Charm dps is just so much higher sustained. That being said id rather keep an xp group small than just fill it up anyway. I like bards and they definitely can fill many roles but not to the same extent that other classes can with the exception of being mana batteries, providing resists, kiting, and pulling certain camps.

[Furme]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But by that logic ANY player will have 60 levels of practice on whatever character they choose. Loraen's guide shows, to the best of his ability, what a class is CAPABLE of. You can still have complete morons and absolute gods that will take a class to the extremely horrible and great, respectively.

I consider myself a pretty good swimmer.. but at the same time.. I wouldn't challenge Michael Phelps to a race.. In statistics he would be called an outlier.. Setting the scale to an outlier is ridiculous, because for one it diminishes the achievement of the person who accomplished it. By saying "This is what every <: insert class here :> is doing" and secondly it sets a skewed perspective for the person using the guide. (read: a new player)..

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With respect to taking more enchanters in groups. The only 2 spots in a group I wouldn't give to Enchanters (in a 6-man group) is the healer (torpor sham or cleric) and bard (me, because I'd want in). 4 ENC with hasted pets are going to outdps e'rybody. And if Alarti wants to come in here and talk about Avatar and PE, let the shaman toss that on the pet (and pray it doesn't destroy the enc when it breaks).

If you really want to hear it again.. In an average group.. with average enchanters.. Not the ones that are in the top 20% of the server.. Would you take an extra enchanter over a rogue? I know most other players on this server wouldn't..

Subnote: I do like enchanters.. I do appreciate that they are one of the most powerful character classes with their abilities to charm, block damage, mez, and stun..
I also know that not every uber-skilled player really wants to participate in the solo artist challenge and that a skilled alternate class is just as useful as an equally skilled enchanter in a group.. I've seen one bard turn an entire group from a failure to a success.. and the same with every other class..

That being said, The point still needed to be made that certain classes were out of whack.. I agree that it's a good reference point, but now it's a bit more accurate..
As I said before though.. Every class is situational, and has their own things that they do better than every other class.. (cept maybe paladins and shadowknights, they're kind of balanced in a lot of aspects)

[Furme]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Chanters and shamans are clearly the overall alpha class of the game currently. Sure chanters may just sit there once they have buffed on a dragon encounter, but imagine that raid force without chanter buffs. Those buffs are huge. As for groups id almost always take additional enchanters to fill dps slots over wizards/rogues. Charm dps is just so much higher sustained. That being said id rather keep an xp group small than just fill it up anyway. I like bards and they definitely can fill many roles but not to the same extent that other classes can with the exception of being mana batteries, providing resists, kiting, and pulling certain camps.

Imagine that raid force without a single warrior.. or without a single shaman.. I mean, I'm not saying that you absolutely couldn't do the encounter without a warrior, or without a shaman.. but it would be Much harder fought.. Same thing with an enchanter.. The point is though, that after the enchanter buffs the raid before the dragon.. The enchanter can log out and no one would be able to tell the difference.. That being said, their raid usefulness is limited, which is unique to them over any other class.. I mean, they could try chain runing the tank.. or casting cancel magic on melees.. but for the most part.. They'd be better served just logging over to a more useful character if they had one..

[joppykid]

Don't Dragons die in about 10 seconds anyways?

[Tecmos Deception]

Furme, you're missing the point.

Splorf's listing of the solo power of the classes is talking about each class's POTENTIAL for solo achievement. The best player in the world isn't going to be able to accomplish much solo if he is playing a rogue or a warrior, therefore rogues and warriors receive terrible ratings for their solo potential.

[Vladesch]

Druid and wizards should be higher on solo.
Druids especially since they can charm kite till 34. (or beyond if that is their preference)
Quad kiting is hard to beat.

I would rank druid, necro and bard all as 10 for solo. Wizard as 9 because they don't have a lot of options before getting their ae spell.

Ability at solo artist challenge has almost nothing to do with what a newbie will be considering when he checks solo ability here. Not sure why people keep using it as a reason to justify this table (I'm assuming your soloXP column is a general guide on how quickly you can level up soloing)

Also enchanters being 5 for gear isn't really accurate. I would say a 1 if they are grouping and maybe an 8 for charm soloing. It takes a fair bit of gear to get your charisma up. You really need 2 columns for gear.

Just my 2c worth...

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Vladesch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druid and wizards should be higher on solo.
Druids especially since they can charm kite till 34. (or beyond if that is their preference)
Quad kiting is hard to beat.

I would rank druid, necro and bard all as 10 for solo. Wizard as 9 because they don't have a lot of options before getting their ae spell.

Ability at solo artist challenge has almost nothing to do with what a newbie will be considering when he checks solo ability here. Not sure why people keep using it as a reason to justify this table (I'm assuming your soloXP column is a general guide on how quickly you can level up soloing)

Also enchanters being 5 for gear isn't really accurate. I would say a 1 if they are grouping and maybe an 8 for charm soloing. It takes a fair bit of gear to get your charisma up. You really need 2 columns for gear.

Just my 2c worth...

Wizard soloing from 24-54 is darn near the fastest in the game. After that, its garbage.

[Splorf22]

I suppose it doesn't take an IQ much above room temperature to quad kite with a wizard. Although TBH I don't think enchanter charm soloing is that hard either if you stay outdoors.

And yeah Vlad, I agree that as an enchanter you don't need as much gear for grouping. But I think that holds for any class; full buffs help a lot and the group can carry players who aren't as well geared. I don't think enchanters are SO gear dependent though, look at Tecmos' shitty gear on the wiki as an example.