religion

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the way it's currently done, which basically teaches about the concept of creationism without going into anything dogmatic. Creationism didn't give us huge technological advancements and therefore doesn't deserve as much time in the classroom as science does. To say the same people that did give us these societal advancements have a theory about the way our species came into existence, but for some reason it should deserve equal time in the classroom as creationism - an out-moded and increasingly irrelevant way of thinking - is not in any way logical.

I'll make no concessions on this point. To equate evolution with religion or creationism is nothing more than underthought conflation, and I won't give anyone who carries on about such nonsense the time of day. It's your choice. Get serious, or be left out of the continuing conversation that's spurring us forward today.

Hmmm, the Protestant Reformation actually gave the world quite a lot of scientific advancement. It's not a coincidence that the Enlightenment happened in Protestant northern Europe. Protestants taught literacy and critical thinking, so that people would be equipped to challenge Catholic orthodoxy. This resulted in Hume, Kant, Nietzsche, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Niehls Bohr.

I'm not saying creationism should be taught, and I'm certainly not saying it has as much merit as teaching evolution. But you should be impartial. If you want to hit religion for its failings, and they are numerous, you must also give it credit. Protestant northern Europe and the countries that resulted from its cultural (NZ, Aus, US, Canada.... arguably South Korea and Singapore as well) are not all overwhelmingly successful without cause. They came from a common cultural, religious value or valuing literacy, higher education, and critical thinking.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Negotiation is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

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You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

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You will become one with the Borg.
You will all become one with the Borg.

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You must comply.

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I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is futile.


But I don't fear being assimilated as I am just a anti-thought Christian who has nothing beneficial to bring to the collective.

We may laugh at the go thought of a collective and assimilation, but it is a very real future for evolutionary transhumanists like William sims bainbridge who dre of a hive consciousness as the next step in mankinds evolution.
Prepare to be assimilated!

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is futile.


But I don't fear being assimilated as I am just a anti-thought Christian who has nothing beneficial to bring to the collective.

We may laugh at the go thought of a collective and assimilation, but it is a very real future for evolutionary transhumanists like William sims bainbridge who dre of a hive consciousness as the next step in mankinds evolution.
Prepare to be assimilated!

Very close to what I was about to type.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmmm, the Protestant Reformation actually gave the world quite a lot of scientific advancement. It's not a coincidence that the Enlightenment happened in Protestant northern Europe. Protestants taught literacy and critical thinking, so that people would be equipped to challenge Catholic orthodoxy. This resulted in Hume, Kant, Nietzsche, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Niehls Bohr.

I'm not saying creationism should be taught, and I'm certainly not saying it has as much merit as teaching evolution. But you should be impartial. If you want to hit religion for its failings, and they are numerous, you must also give it credit. Protestant northern Europe and the countries that resulted from its cultural (NZ, Aus, US, Canada.... arguably South Korea and Singapore as well) are not all overwhelmingly successful without cause. They came from a common cultural, religious value or valuing literacy, higher education, and critical thinking.

Yes, as I said upthread religion isn't testament to our unintelligence, but our immorality. Many of the brightest scientists and scholars in history were Christian theologians, namely Thomas Aquinas, and the originators of the scientific method were indeed largely Christian or at the very least deistic. It has certainly helped us along in the past, and you're right - I do owe it to myself to study more of it, it is an enlightening subject on which you could spend a lifetime of reading.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, as I said upthread religion isn't testament to our unintelligence, but our immorality. Many of the brightest scientists and scholars in history were Christian theologians, namely Thomas Aquinas, and the originators of the scientific method were indeed largely Christian or at the very least deistic. It has certainly helped us along in the past, and you're right - I do owe it to myself to study more of it, it is an enlightening subject on which you could spend a lifetime of reading.

I have always wondered what advantage morality is in the evolutionary worldview. It goes directly against survival of the fittest.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmmm, the Protestant Reformation actually gave the world quite a lot of scientific advancement. It's not a coincidence that the Enlightenment happened in Protestant northern Europe. Protestants taught literacy and critical thinking, so that people would be equipped to challenge Catholic orthodoxy. This resulted in Hume, Kant, Nietzsche, Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Niehls Bohr.

I'm not saying creationism should be taught, and I'm certainly not saying it has as much merit as teaching evolution. But you should be impartial. If you want to hit religion for its failings, and they are numerous, you must also give it credit. Protestant northern Europe and the countries that resulted from its cultural (NZ, Aus, US, Canada.... arguably South Korea and Singapore as well) are not all overwhelmingly successful without cause. They came from a common cultural, religious value or valuing literacy, higher education, and critical thinking.

Fuck all the typos but you can see what I'm saying.

I'd also like to mention the Islamic Golden Age. Seems like a far off time, but there was a period when Cairo, Baghdad, Samarqand, Iran, and Islamic Spain were Meccas of scientific study and progress.

Religion has done a lot for the world.... You think humans would've had it for so long without there being some benefit? Give your ancestors some credit. They invented the computer you type on, they discovered the electricity that powers it, and they learned to work most of the metals and semiconductors within it. Humanity had a pragmatic purpose for religion... Or, there might just be a religion out there that is true. Who the fuck knows. But I guarantee you the man who brought about Roman aqueducts was superstitious and thanked Jupiter for his creation.

Oh, and since we're on an elf sim...

You realize nordic religions created mythology around elves and dwarves and such? What do you think magic is? It's a collective superstitious belief passed down through ages. If you like EQ, the world's religions have contributed to your life in a very tangible way.

Also, can you please film when a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door? I bet your response of temple throbbing rage would be extremely funny.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, as I said upthread religion isn't testament to our unintelligence, but our immorality. Many of the brightest scientists and scholars in history were Christian theologians, namely Thomas Aquinas, and the originators of the scientific method were indeed largely Christian or at the very least deistic. It has certainly helped us along in the past, and you're right - I do owe it to myself to study more of it, it is an enlightening subject on which you could spend a lifetime of reading.

Ah I disagree with you there man. If the Catholic church covers up a child abuse scandal, that isn't a sign of the Bible's immorality, it's a sign of the human beings continuing to be imperfect. But I've had a couple too many beers tonight and I can't really contineu this discussion without my head exploding.

All I can say is, religion isnt' all bad, it isn't all good. Same thing with science. You have to have faith in some things, but maintain a healthy skepticism as, sadly, there are people out there, in the name of many different things, who would manipulate you.

Also, I think the New Testament is a great philosophical read (excluding Revelation). The Old Testament doesn't make much sense to me, as I doubt God would be such an ass hole (see Job). In any case, denying yourself a rich legacy of philosophy that has come from Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, etc, is to limit yourself to entire cultures worth of collective thought over thousands of yeras.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, can you please film when a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door? I bet your response of temple throbbing rage would be extremely funny.

Oh I don't think they'll be coming back here anytime soon. I think I've scared them off for a good while.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have always wondered what advantage morality is in the evolutionary worldview. It goes directly against survival of the fittest.

OK seiously last postd fuck this... but:

It takes roughly 14, 18, 20 years to raise a human being. Prior to that, we are physically, emotionally (debatable), and intellectually weak. From an evolutionary standpoint, having some form of marriage, monogamy, polygamy, etc... makes sense because an infant would need protecting that a mother couldn't give alone. Once you start having units like that, it stands to reason that we'd expand our "group" to include more than just our parents and children. We then include grandchildren, cousins, nephews, etc... you see where I'm going with this.

At a certain point, you have a society, and since we are social, and since we have different talents, we must work together to maximize our rate of survival. Very simplistic, but I definitely believe morality actually makes perfect sense evolutionarily speaking. If humans ONLY fight one another, and never work together, we'd all be fucked.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

morality actually makes perfect sense evolutionarily speaking.

Completely agree. The Jewish people couldn't have made it to the foot of Mount Sinai if they were under the impression that murder, theft and perjury were kosher things to do, or if they didn't have some idea of the importance of human solidarity. These things are innate in us, and aren't bestowed upon us by some celestial dictator that watches over us from above. The weakest argument religion can make is that any notion of human morality must be deferred upward, otherwise we wouldn't have any moral ground to stand on at all.