2020 Post Election MEGAthread

[hobart]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about this: Give the police *more* funding so that they can hire social workers. Social workers are already a thing, they are dispatched to situations that call for their expertise. What people have been proposing, which is completely idiotic, is that social workers be dispatched to situations where there is an imminent lethal threat. Cops already perform the role of social worker in many situations, for example when they talk jumpers off the ledges of buildings all the time.

Suggesting that a social worker should be called in when somebody like george floyd, who had an extensive violent criminal history (he robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint, among other things) and had been in prison fourteen times, which the cops *are aware of* as soon as they ID him and look up his priors, is insane. Or somebody like jacob blake, or that dude waving a knife around, or literally any of the other people that have inspired rioting this year. This is what armed police are for.. It's super easy to criticize them after the fact when it wasn't you whose life was in danger.

George Floyd's criminal history isn't relevant. From top to bottom it was a failure of training and procedure. Surely three people could subdue him in a way that protected his safety.

I have a good bit of sympathy for the two officers that were relatively green, who weren't training officers, and who didn't kneel on George Floyd's neck for the length of your average Led Zeppelin song.

The issue I find most troubling with a lot of these cases of "abuse" is that the egregious behavior often isn't breaking the law. The idea that fear is automatically a reason to use deadly force needs to be reconsidered. Risking your life to serve others is part of the job.

I think the one thing we might be able to agree on is that "defund the police" is a stupid slogan that means different things to different people and each interpretation is almost universally a bad idea.

I'm really disappointed that Trumpism wasn't impugned at the ballot box this last cycle, but I was glad to see that performative wokeness from the illiberal left was.

[Baler]

The 2020 riots were all based on lies.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2020 riots were all based on lies.

I agree. But I also agree with fixing the world. There are problems. Sadly no one wanted the truth, they wanted expedience and immediacy. Maybe they were based on lies, so that the effect would be softened and countered some and things would slow? And we'd re-evaluate our own integrity? It did for me.

Yes, I did care about George Floyyd he died unnecessarily, he should have been in a criminal psychiatric ward long term. Years, if not forever for rehab. He could have taught us how to avoid his fate. Over and over. And put less cops at risk, over and over. He was probably too far gone for civil society. Or running a family. And they should have been all removed from that situation.

I know. I was the hand of death.

We don't want to care for the people we put in George's position though. We just want them to "not be our problem anymore".

We as a people are responsible for the health and welfare of this country and we treat ourselves like absolute worthless shit. And make everyone run a privatized maze and gauntlet to the truth. And believe you me I was thinking the best way to save place this was through a private charity. Not one that lobbies the government for shit and "power", but actually does shit. And pays good hearted people for doing the right shit. A living wage.

edit: I say the same things for others as I say for myself.

*takes a deep breath and gently exhales*

God bless. The USA.

[imperiouskitten]

George Floyd was not waving a knife around. If you pretend to have any respect for the principles of our justice system, his priors should be irrelevant. That said I will acknowledge the intimidation factor in there being a large black violent felon freaking out who you are charged with controlling. I am even willing to admit that his priors and size are "mitigating factors". But they are *NOT* justification.

I just think there should probably be a social worker or some sort of trained person present somewhere in a crew of 6 or 8 police officers, who engages with the guy conversationally in a manner other than "YOU WILL GET IN NOW" when he starts openly calling out a mental health freakout re: going away to jail. I agree that we should fund that ^^

Yes the 2020 riots were bad, hope u dont think i liekd them granpa. Your emotional response tells the whole tale. I wish you could have a civil convo with me!

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by imperiouskitten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

George Floyd was not waving a knife around. If you pretend to have any respect for the principles of our justice system, his priors should be irrelevant. That said I will acknowledge the intimidation factor in there being a large black violent felon freaking out. I just think there should probably be a social worker or some sort of trained person present somewhere in a crew of 6 or 8 police officers, who engages with the guy conversationally in a manner other than "YOU WILL GET IN NOW" when he starts openly calling out a mental health freakout. I agree that we should fund that ^^

Yes the 2020 riots were bad, hope u dont think i liekd them granpa. I wish you could have a civil convo with me!

If you watch the entire 20+ minute long body cam footage, the cops *were* being incredibly polite and civil, just doing their jobs, and asking him simple questions. They essentially were acting as social workers at that time. They didn't start yelling YOU WILL GET IN NOW until it was the last resort. Same with that dude who got shot after falling asleep in the wendy's drive thru. You only got to see the 7 seconds where they shot him. There were 20 minutes prior to that where they were super chill, just asking him what was up, and eventually determined he was too drunk to drive. They attempted to calmly place him in handcuffs and he freaked out and tried to steal their tazer and use it against them. Nobody gives a shit about these details, they just see the 7 second clip where he gets shot and respond emotionally. That guy, also, is responsible for his own death and his own actions. Not the cop. If they had just let him go, he easily could have ended up hurting innocent people who were not involved in the situation. Being a cop is probably really hard, I'd imagine, and the non stop dogpiling on them when they simply do their jobs is disturbing.

I understand he wasn't waving a knife around, but given that he has a violent criminal history, a social worker is not who you need. You need armed police. George floyd died because of the choices he made in his life, the demonization of the cops is completely out of proportion to what they actually did. The knee on the neck was over the top, I can agree with that. The rest of it was completely standard procedure and people are treating them as if they are hitler youth.

[imperiouskitten]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you watch the entire 20+ minute long body cam footage, the cops *were* being incredibly polite and civil, just doing their jobs, and asking him simple questions. They essentially were acting as social works at that time. They didn't start yelling YOU WILL GET IN NOW until it was the last resort.

I understand he wasn't waving a knife around, but given that he has a violent criminal history, a social worker is not who you need. You need armed police. George floyd died because of the choices he made in his life, the demonization of the cops is completely out of proportion to what they actually did. The knee on the neck was over the top, I can agree with that. The rest of it was completely standard procedure and people are treating them as if they are hitler youth.

Right before "the last resort" could have been a man, even just a cop who attended a seminar, saying "OK George, I know this is heavy shit, listen I will turn on the lights in the back of the car, and let's sit here for 2 minutes in silence before you get in, but we have to take you in and you have to relax or you will get hurt." A brief period for neurotransmitters to reduce in everyone's head. 2 min. And if he disrespects that chance given to him or laughs openly or can't comply beyond that and there's no clear answer, so be it. (Or whatever, just an example protocol.)

At a certain point, force gets necessary and accidents may happen I agree. If a person starts fumbling in a cop's belt for their weapon, it's up to the cop's kindness and martial valor to whip them and let them live if they like. That's fine. But I watched the video and I watched the cops (and you) decide that "the last resort" is called for as soon as their patience is tested too far. Fact is, they could have sat there 30 more minutes. There was no "last resort" moment.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you watch the entire 20+ minute long body cam footage, the cops *were* being incredibly polite and civil,

I totally disagree! I see them act agitated, confused, impatient and then totally out of control.

I see another man who was sitting there fine, until they walked him over somewhere else and then asked him to sit somewhere else and he panicked and freaked out and they panicked and freaked out and then someone died.

This is not the first time I have looked at a video with someone who is on the other side on this issue, and we both look at the SAME VIDEO and I see a bunch of fuckups on the police and a person who is easily dealt with but the police lose their cool. And the person next to me see's the exact opposite.

So, honestly I dont know what to say about this issue.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by imperiouskitten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hope u dont think i liekd them granpa. Your emotional response tells the whole tale. I wish you could have a civil convo with me!

All you had to do was go to Japan with me and bang some caffe maids.
Instead you went and changed while I was away.

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[imperiouskitten]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All you had to do was go to Japan with me and bang some caffe maids.
Instead you went and changed while I was away.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sorry boo

a thug changes

and love changes

and best friends..[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jibartik]

What about that couple that was playing crash bandicoot and the cops came to the door guns drawn and shot the kid in the chest and then laughed at the woman litearlly while they stood over his dead body?

Is that good police work?

I just dont understand how everything is an all or nothing issue, everything is all or nothing.

We made friggen covid political its insane.

Want kids to have access to a free and excellent education? well not until we make it a divisive conflict between our political parties!

I wish we elected trump and just had the damn civil war its more inevitable than skynet lol