ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[uygi]

Jesus I'm late to this party. Too lazy to read it all now...

Seems to me that Maester Aemon hit the nail on the head when he indicated, on his deathbed, that Daenerys was Azor Azhai reborn. Makes sense, Targaryen, Dragons, and a clear "paladin" mentality".

Martin has made it clear that he'll fuck anybody. That was the entire point of killing Ned in the first place, to make it clear that anybody can die at any time. I think Jon Snow's human body will die, and he'll live on as Ghost. Robb did legitimize Jon Snow, but who's left that knows and/or can prove that? If Jon Snow really is Azor Azhai then I agree that Melisandre will have to save him and figure it out (not necessarily in that order... probably figure it out whilst saving him)- that or his being Azor Azhai just keeps him from dying... I don't see any reason that Azor Azhai reborn needs to be a Targaryen.

I've not really discussed this with people, never heard the Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow but that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just didn't really care that much, I read Dance with Dragons right away when it came out and before that it'd been 4.5 years since I last read any of the others. Unlike all these preppy new kids, I started reading the series in like 2000!

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've not really discussed this with people, never heard the Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow but that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just didn't really care that much, I read Dance with Dragons right away when it came out and before that it'd been 4.5 years since I last read any of the others. Unlike all these preppy new kids, I started reading the series in like 2000!

remember Neds dream from book 1? http://youtu.be/v9Mp8MzAjAY

thats probably the single biggest piece of evidence for R+L=J imo

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

according to some bullshit i was reading, far and away Dany the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east. But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn.

There is a theory that the real sword Lightbringer has been in Westeros the whole time, and it is the sword Dawn, the hereditary greatsword of House Dayne. The sword was made from the metal of a fallen meteorite. (CoK, pg. 332). Eddard carried Dawn back to Starfall after Arthur Dayne’s death (GoT, pg. 65). Perhaps Dany or another character will find the true Lightbringer there?

There is only one thing wrong with this theory. Dawn is described as being ‘pale as milkglass’ (GoT, pg. 425), while Lightbringer is known as the Red Sword of Heroes. However, besides this slight difference in color, there is no evidence against Dawn being Lightbringer



and lastly, no where is it written that "Azor Azai" and the "Prince that was Promised" are the same person. i personally have issues with Dany as AA. Melisandre sees a black haired man. Maybe its Stannis.. but i think its more likely Jon, and i think melisandre is starting to think this too. Jon is in ghost, Melisandre is gonna hit him with that epic click stick and he'll get a 96% rezz np. just like thoros and beric, and similar to the prologue.

at the end of the day, Dany will either die to save all of people from the white walkers (ie: think jesus dying for all the sins), or Dany will hook up with Jon, and together, their story is indeed what makes the song of ice and fire

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". (Btw, couldn't the sound Lightbringer would make during forging be what's behind the title: A Song of Ice and Fire? Maybe I'm reaching a little, will have to think more about this..) But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

I had more to post about Aegon and Dany but I gotta run for now. Let me know if you wanna discuss anything else from the House of the Undying Ones later.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". (Btw, couldn't the sound Lightbringer would make during forging be what's behind the title: A Song of Ice and Fire? Maybe I'm reaching a little, will have to think more about this..) But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

I had more to post about Aegon and Dany but I gotta run for now. Let me know if you wanna discuss anything else from the House of the Undying Ones later.

I just realized I am assuming too much about Lightbringer here. Does it still exist somewhere? I need to read more. My thoughts on Gendry might make more sense if he actually had to forge the sword. Lol. Taking off tinfoil hat for now. Bedtime. It's been fun.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just realized I am assuming too much about Lightbringer here. Does it still exist somewhere? I need to read more. My thoughts on Gendry might make more sense if he actually had to forge the sword. Lol. Taking off tinfoil hat for now. Bedtime. It's been fun.

ohh Lightbringer. theres a lot of theories on this, including that Lightbringer is actually the Nights Watch because of their oath

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

Lightbringer is supposed to give off heat; the Night's Watch burns against the cold. It is the "light that brings the dawn." The original defeat of the Others is called the Battle for the Dawn. Could this mean that Lightbringer has been staring us in the face practically the entire time? The Azor Ahai legend and the origin of the Night's Watch are, we're led to believe, roughly contemporary. Azor Ahai's legend has to do with defeating the Others, which is also the Night's Watch's mission. As such, the AA legend and the Night's Watch are inexorably linked. The "wielder of Lightbringer" might simply mean the person who commands the Night's Watch. For all we know, AA might himself have been the founding Lord Commander. It also occurred to me that AA's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa might somehow tie into the Night's Watch promise to not take wives. We understand that promise to simply be putting duty before familial loyalty, but what if there's more to it? If AA did sacrifice Nissa Nissa to "forge" Lightbringer, and the Night's Watch is itself Lightbringer, then the rule against taking wives literally goes back to the first days of the Watch and has a deep symbolic meaning beyond just utility.

and then you have the dragon horn, "... a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword." Euron Crow's Eye supposedly got his dragon horn from the flames of Valyria in the remnants of the Doom. "To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered." (whether AA did this or not) that it requires human sacrifice, and that no animal/creature may be replaced. Remember that the blower of Euron's Valyrian Horn must die.

then u have Dawn. Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne, who bestow the title Sword of the Morning on the sword's bearer. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star. Its blade is as pale as milkglass. The name of the Daynes' castle, Starfall, and their arms, featuring a white sword and falling star, both reference Dawn. The blade is said to be just as sharp as Valyrian steel but where that is dark, the blade of Dawn is milky white. The last known user of the sword was Ser Arthur Dayne, who died at the Tower of Joy. After the fight, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Dawn to Arthur's sister Ashara Dayne. Dawn is said to be "alive with lite". Dawn is mentioned in every book, yet we've never seen it. Dawn is only given to those worthy enough to wield it, and is not automatically passed down from one generation to the next. And when you mix all that together, i think it means Dawn is important, and has a role. could that role be Lightbringer, i dont know, but i think we cant rule out the possibility. we KNOW stannis' sword is fake, and simply a glamor she put on the sword similar to thoros sword at the iron isle invasion, and then Aemon points out stannis' sword was not hot, and lightbringer radiates heat. Dawn is not burning out either, but maybe it could when AA wields it, and the Daynes are the custodians of lightbringer.

if Lightbringer is an actual sword, i think it will be Dawn (fun fact, if Jon Snow is AA, and if LB=Dawn, then it means Lightbringer was right there when AA was born if R+L=J)

if Lightbringer is not an actual sword, i think it is a metaphor for the nightswatch, and i think that the lord commander could be AA. we also know that the battle for the dawn was against the others, that common foe of the nights watch.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One of the prophesies from the Undying Ones refers to "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand." Gendry has blue eyes. Jon Snow's are grey.

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

ill have more for u later, but i wanted to hit on this, like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man. hes tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

The red sword would seem to be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and the blue-eyed king without a shadow would then be Stannis Baratheon whose shadow has been so recently harnessed by Melisandre's sorcery to murder Renly Baratheon and Ser Cortnay Penrose. no i dont think stannis is AA, i just think thats who she saw in that vision.

edit- happy 5000th post

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ill have more for u later, but i wanted to hit on this, like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man. hes tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

The red sword would seem to be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and the blue-eyed king without a shadow would then be Stannis Baratheon whose shadow has been so recently harnessed by Melisandre's sorcery to murder Renly Baratheon and Ser Cortnay Penrose. no i dont think stannis is AA, i just think thats who she saw in that vision.

edit- happy 5000th post

About the king who casts no shadow. One reason why I'm thinking this might be Gendry: when I think of the meaning of the words "casts no shadow" I am thinking they're referring to a person who doesn't seem important; someone unknown and unexpected who is already hidden in the shadows, and therefore will cast none.

Also, AA will pull the sword from the fire. I just took that to mean he will forge it.

Anyway, I understand my thinking is more literal but metaphors make me go insane. ("Omg what does THAT MEAN!?!?" - followed by a seizure and foaming at the mouth.)

Some of your metaphorical interpretation of the Night's Watch possibly being Lightbringer is very intriguing. I'll be thinking about it and might post more about that later (after the seizure).

Goddamn GRRM. So many theories and possible outcomes, thinking about them all is enough to make a person insane so I have to take little breaks . Lol.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm starting to wonder if Gendry will turn out to be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa. I wasn't too sure about your Dany/sacrifice theory, Sirken, but some of the clues might just fit. I spent some time today reading both the Lightbringer Prophecy and the chapter in ACoK with Dany in the House of the Undying Ones. Here are a few simple observations:

Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself. Gendry is a skilled blacksmith. He makes the steel "sing". But doesn't it seem likely that when AA comes again he would need to have smithing skill?

I honestly can't remember if anyone else has talked about the Gendry theory in this thread...

i personally think Gendry will play a role in reconstructing Ice, as it was his blacksmith master that broke it down into Oathkeeper and WidowsWail (or whatever joffreys sword was named. remember its very very rare to find a blacksmith that can rework with valaryian steel

i also think Gendry will be the lord of house baratheon, and that Gendry and Arya will hook up, FINALLY uniting the Baratheons and the Starks (third time the charm)

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Littlegyno 10.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sidelle where's ur titty pics u promised u fucking BITCH

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[Sirken]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see any reason that Azor Azhai reborn needs to be a Targaryen.

more on this. A LOT of people think that Azor Azai must be Targaryen because they are assuming that Azor Azai and "The Prince that was Promised" is the same person. maybe thats true, and maybe not. Melisandre is the only one that has used both terms, and im not sure if she was using them interchangeably or as separate people. Maester Aemon does say in book for that the red star + the return of dragons = Dany is the Prince that was Promised, but Aemon has never used the term Azor Azai. Maester Aemon’s notion is supported by the woods witch, who prophesied that the prince that was promised would be born from the line of Prince Aerys and Princess Rhaella. When Aegon V heard the prophecy he arranged the marriage between the two, and many people believed that Rhaegar would be the prince that was promised, although that didnt work out. However, Daenerys Targaryen is also of that same line, their daughter. Maester Aemon goes on to explain why the Prince that was promised could be a female:

No one ever looked for a girl ... It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar I thought … the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.

personally i think they will be separate people, and i expect it to be Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow. with Dany being Azor Azai and Jon Snow being the Prince that was Promised. i expect Dany to give her life in some fashion that will forever save mankind from the threat of the Whitewalkers, and Jon Snow as the prince that was promised will be declared the rightful king of Westeros, and will unite the North and the South. i know, i know.. what about Aegon? Aegon will be killed, or more likely discovered to be an imposter as has happened a few times in English history (GRRM loves to borrow from english history).