Raid Changes

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, and it shouldn't be like this. What does Asgard, Acyrid, FC, FV etc have to look forward to? This shit isn't fun, there's no skill involved seeing which way VS or Trak sways to determine who deserves the kill, it's stupid that the status quo is training in VP.

The GMs have taken a hands off approach, and I don't blame them, the situation is entirely stupid. This is why I propose a boycott of TMO, they are the guild refusing to play ball.

There shouldn't be any talkings of boycotting TMO, they aren't the problem. all that's gonna do is piss the GM's off and toss this thread into RnF.

The server as a whole has a crappy variance, everyone doesn't like it and its the main cause of why i posted. Not to sit here and start a pissing match like children...most all of us are adults here and it's time we start acting like it.

[ArumTP]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, and it shouldn't be like this. What does Asgard, Acyrid, FC, FV etc have to look forward to? This shit isn't fun, there's no skill involved seeing which way VS or Trak sways to determine who deserves the kill, it's stupid that the status quo is training in VP.

The GMs have taken a hands off approach, and I don't blame them, the situation is entirely stupid. This is why I propose a boycott of TMO, they are the guild refusing to play ball.

Small guilds simply don't involve themselves in contested mobs. Say this variance thing is removed. It would only result in Divinity, BDA, Taken?, Acyrid? getting some of TMO's targets. Small guilds simply don't have the vast resources available all the time to kill these mobs in short order, even though within their ranks they are fully capable. Small guilds are still racing each other for fear/hate after it got AOE killed by bigger guilds or getting lucky for a fully repopulated zone.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

But I'm not going to deny TMO buffs, rezzes, groups, or whatever else because they aren't sharing raid pixels with me. My guild will eventually be trying to take targets from them and I have plans for how to do it which may or may not work, in the mean time I'll keep helping with the push for no variance or whatevs.

[Daldolma]

I wish this hadn't devolved to TMO bashing/defending. It's so incredibly naive to blame TMO. Before TMO, TR did the same thing. Before TR, DA did it. Before DA did it, IB did it. It's not about the guild; it's about the rules. The way the rules are set up, you're far better off forming a mega-guild with 100 active members and dominating content in order to share loot. Nilbog wonders why the guilds on P99 are so massive compared to Live? Because on P99, UNLIKE ON CLASSIC, you can dominate 90+% of the raid content given a big enough guild. There's no incentive to compete. Joining up and splitting everything with a prohibitive monopoly on the end-game is far more pixel-lucrative than tracking 96 hour windows with a reasonably sized guild and risking not getting the kill. On Live, that type of monopoly wasn't possible. Everyone knew when mobs were spawning; having 100 members was only a slight advantage over having 30. It didn't make sense to carry dead weight that would absorb loot.

TMO has acted 100% rationally. By accepting anyone with a pulse, they can keep every raid target tracked 24/7 through windows, and they can ensure sufficient turn-out at any time with a batphone. By getting 90% of the loot, it's very easy to keep everyone happy despite the big numbers. If all of a sudden rules changed and they were getting 40% of the loot with 100 active members, they'd either split or slowly bleed members until we saw something much more similar to Live: 3-4 mid-sized guilds all engaged in the end-game.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wish this hadn't devolved to TMO bashing/defending. It's so incredibly naive to blame TMO. Before TMO, TR did the same thing. Before TR, DA did it. Before DA did it, IB did it. It's not about the guild; it's about the rules. The way the rules are set up, you're far better off forming a mega-guild with 100 active members and dominating content in order to share loot. Nilbog wonders why the guilds on P99 are so massive compared to Live? Because on P99, UNLIKE ON CLASSIC, you can dominate 90+% of the raid content given a big enough guild. There's no incentive to compete. Joining up and splitting everything with a prohibitive monopoly on the end-game is far more pixel-lucrative than tracking 96 hour windows with a reasonably sized guild and risking not getting the kill. On Live, that type of monopoly wasn't possible. Everyone knew when mobs were spawning; having 100 members was only a slight advantage over having 30. It didn't make sense to carry dead weight that would absorb loot.

TMO has acted 100% rationally. By accepting anyone with a pulse, they can keep every raid target tracked 24/7 through windows, and they can ensure sufficient turn-out at any time with a batphone. By getting 90% of the loot, it's very easy to keep everyone happy despite the big numbers. If all of a sudden rules changed and they were getting 40% of the loot with 100 active members, they'd either split or slowly bleed members until we saw something much more similar to Live: 3-4 mid-sized guilds all engaged in the end-game.

Emphasis added.

Thank you for steering us back on track.

[falkun]

Yay, more classic. Let's see it happen!

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Yeah sorry lol I got caught up in trying to keep this from becoming TMO bashing. Back on target!

[Chokan]

I never raided on EQ1, but I did on EQ2, while they had contested mobs with spawn variences. My guild had to switch servers to even get attempts in, to learn each fight. If there wasn't a variance, we would've been at least able to attempt mobs and improve as players. Who's going to want to join a raiding guild that doesn't even get to attempt anything? Set spawn time will promote more competition, which is what it seems everyone wants, including TMO...

[arsenalpow]

smaller guilds could have attempts right now if TMO would agree to a rotation, that's more likely than the GMs removing variance currently

i'm not trying to derail this conversation, i'm just looking for any possible change to increase the viability of everyone else trying to get some raid mobs killed

[Daldolma]

That may be true, but asking TMO for charity isn't a sustainable solution. There's no reason for TMO to accept a rotation. There's nothing that would hold them to such a rotation. It would be an empty, short-term gesture that would have more to do with them not needing the loot than the end-game being fixed. Come Velious, that kind of rotation would be flushed and abandoned, and we'd be right back where we are now.

The change has to come organically. The conditions need to be altered. We shouldn't be asking guilds to work against their own self interest. We should be fixing the server rules so that every guild working in their own self interest ultimately results in an acceptable end-game situation. This isn't care bear stuff where we fix the server to help the underdogs. This is server health stuff. The server needs to be fixed to adhere to classic and to promote classic end-game conditions.