Raid Changes

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

I think the main point is that 18 hours or 96 hours TMO will get it all with the variance in place. Other guilds can track all they want TMO isn't going to lose the mobilization battle.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Sweetbaby Jesus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the main point is that 18 hours or 96 hours TMO will get it all with the variance in place. Other guilds can track all they want TMO isn't going to lose the mobilization battle.

You would be surprised. TMO has lost plenty in the past, they don't lose now because no one plays.

There are plenty of capable guilds who would start showing up if mobs were on 18hour windows and had bi-weekly scheduled repops.

Hell TMO would probably start shaving members if things changed, they wouldn't need the large force anymore in that scenario.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are plenty of capable guilds who would start showing up if mobs were on 18hour windows and had bi-weekly scheduled repops.

Hell TMO would probably start shaving members if things changed, they wouldn't need the large force anymore in that scenario.

I have said the same thing.

Nilbog want to see smaller raid guilds of yesteryear? The answer is in this thread and indeed within this quote.

[Daldolma]

As an aside, I have no idea what you're talking about Giegue. Shortening variance would be absolutely disastrous for small guilds. Tracking an 18-hour window means nothing -- don't you understand? If Divinity and TMO are both tracking the same mob in a shortened window, TMO is going to beat you 100 times out of 100. So yes, you might have a better chance of actually getting a batphone when the mob pops: good luck with that. Divinity will log in 12 players at 4 PM or 4AM EST. TMO will log in 35. Good game. Let's say you luck out and a low-priority raid mob happens to pop at 8PM EST, early in its window -- perfect conditions for a small guild. You're still not beating TMO and BDA to the finish line. TMO is willing to track 96 hour windows and hop online at any time. What do you think they're going to do when you condense things into 18 hour windows? They'll have 50 people ready to pounce the second it pops. They had 77 raiding the other night. You cannot beat them in a variance battle. If anyone beats them, it will be BDA -- because once again, variance caters to size. TMO and BDA can mobilize 50% of their raid force and throw warm bodies at mobs instantly. Smaller guilds need to wait for their entire raid force, then prepare. Maybe if you're lucky they'll link loot.

On top of that, once a mob gets toward the end of its window, guilds are just going to poop-sock. Inny with 5 hours? Sounds like a good time for a Hate clear... said 4 different guilds. Trak window at 8 hours? Hey, how about we get a few dozen people to clear juggs. This would be the only chance a small guild has with a shortened variance -- by poop-socking in window. But once that starts, then everyone is going to poop-sock in window. Insert mess.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As an aside, I have no idea what you're talking about Giegue. Shortening variance would be absolutely disastrous for small guilds. Tracking an 18-hour window means nothing -- don't you understand? If Divinity and TMO are both tracking the same mob in a shortened window, TMO is going to beat you 100 times out of 100. So yes, you might have a better chance of actually getting a batphone when the mob pops: good luck with that. Divinity will log in 12 players at 4 PM or 4AM EST. TMO will log in 35. Good game. Let's say you luck out and a low-priority raid mob happens to pop at 8PM EST, early in its window -- perfect conditions for a small guild. You're still not beating TMO and BDA to the finish line. TMO is willing to track 96 hour windows and hop online at any time. What do you think they're going to do when you condense things into 18 hour windows? They'll have 50 people ready to pounce the second it pops. They had 77 raiding the other night. You cannot beat them in a variance battle. If anyone beats them, it will be BDA -- because once again, variance caters to size. TMO and BDA can mobilize 50% of their raid force and throw warm bodies at mobs instantly. Smaller guilds need to wait for their entire raid force, then prepare. Maybe if you're lucky they'll link loot.

On top of that, once a mob gets toward the end of its window, guilds are just going to poop-sock. Inny with 5 hours? Sounds like a good time for a Hate clear... said 4 different guilds. Trak window at 8 hours? Hey, how about we get a few dozen people to clear juggs. This would be the only chance a small guild has with a shortened variance -- by poop-socking in window. But once that starts, then everyone is going to poop-sock in window. Insert mess.

Now insert bi-weekly repops to keep all of the mobs around 24hrs of each other before the next repop.

Honestly atm, what is helping TMO is the large variance. Things are so spread out that they can easily defend(for a lack of a better word) "their" mobs from other guilds. The risk of going after one target and having another spawn during the same time is very minimal. It might of happened 4 times over the 9 months of raiding I put in last go round. Condense it down into a shorter period and now TMO has to defend all the targets in a much shorter time spawn against more foes.

Makes it rather difficult to be in all places at once while people are all attacking your pixels.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now insert bi-weekly repops to keep all of the mobs around 24hrs of each other before the next repop.

The bi-weekly repop idea is a good one. It would be a classic emulation of patch days. I just don't see why it has to be attached at the hip with a shortened, rather than eliminated, variance.

No variance and bi-weekly repop is classic; that's what I'm in favor of.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The bi-weekly repop idea is a good one. It would be a classic emulation of patch days. I just don't see why it has to be attached at the hip with a shortened, rather than eliminated, variance.

No variance and bi-weekly repop is classic; that's what I'm in favor of.

There are people who want variance (shortened from what it is)
There are people who want no variance
There is one person who wants variance the way it is (Rogean)

Unfortunately, the one person who likes variance the way it is, doesn't want it removed completely.

I'm more in favor of no variance than any, but you work with what you're given.

[Writ3r]

What is also lacking about the "poopsock" issue thus far in this thread is that it comes down to the variable of actually getting the mob or making it easier for another guild to get the mob by doing it. The only real zone that aids a "race" and is anti poopsock is fear because it all repops when CT does (assuming you don't allow the training aspect and force clears, considering back when it was considered griefing and was monitored people triggering DT cycles on purpose to be punished). With encounters like plane of hate and dungeon mobs like Trak all having mobs that you can clear ahead of time. It will become a thinking point on whether or not it is worth poopsocking yourselves when you can still lose the target to the current FTE > all rule by clearing the way for another guild or 2 or 5 to come "compete". As it has been stated if you go to the classic route and more people know the times, yes initially there may be poopsocking but in the end stuff will get sorted out due to people actually being near each other forcing interactions between guilds.

This will then lead to what others have said in regards to the raid scene getting cleared up by allowing for more people to have a say within what ideas go into it since they will now be involved.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Writ3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is also lacking about the "poopsock" issue thus far in this thread is that it comes down to the variable of actually getting the mob or making it easier for another guild to get the mob by doing it. The only real zone that aids a "race" and is anti poopsock is fear because it all repops when CT does (assuming you don't allow the training aspect and force clears, considering back when it was considered griefing and was monitored people triggering DT cycles on purpose to be punished). With encounters like plane of hate and dungeon mobs like Trak all having mobs that you can clear ahead of time. It will become a thinking point on whether or not it is worth poopsocking yourselves when you can still lose the target to the current FTE > all rule by clearing the way for another guild or 2 or 5 to come "compete". As it has been stated if you go to the classic route and more people know the times, yes initially there may be poopsocking but in the end stuff will get sorted out due to people actually being near each other forcing interactions between guilds.

This will then lead to what others have said in regards to the raid scene getting cleared up by allowing for more people to have a say within what ideas go into it since they will now be involved.

I don't see every guild that would start to get involved all going for the same targets. Some guilds can't even hope to take down some of them, but they can shoot for the other targets.

TMO can take down 1-3 targets depending on what they are, but they can't take them all down at the same time and even then, it's not going to be worth the large guild size.

TMO doesn't need to talk with other guilds because they hold all the chips, get enough smaller guilds in the mix with bda and then you have lots of small shareholders who are equal to or greater than the large entity.

[Writ3r]

That would be the point of no variance, get more guilds feeling as if they can compete and embedded within the raid scene. Then this allegation of poopsock would be null and void as time went on and other guilds either grew or just got better at encounters by getting the mobs the bigger guilds took as less priority initially. It would allow them to experience the end game get some of that gear then move on to the other mobs out of curiosity and hope. I never said anyone "had" to talk to anyone, but it would force people to talk (in the event of poopsocking) about the way things went considering you could still lose the mob by clearing the path for more guilds to have a shot at snagging FTE.

Either way, with more guilds within the raid scene and snagging mobs that still culminates in them being within the overall scene. So even if it was always FC, Asgard, FV and such on certain mobs they would work together. Then on other mobs maybe Taken and Div would see eachother a lot where at the higher end like VS/Trak initially it would be TMO/BDA. At some point all of those guilds would cross paths on particular mobs to allow for conversations to take place, whether or not they are "needed" can be debated... but it would still open lines of communication far more than they are now especially for it to be done IN game or voice chat (like the ragefire meetings) rather than on forums where attitudes tend not to be as realistic.