Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[oldfish]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

People sometimes deciding not to get into fights because they might die? Sounds pretty great to me; realism is fun.

[Lovely]

I'm truly looking forward to a real XP loss in PVP. It gotta hurt when you die or it's no fun at all.

Item loot I'm only against cause I think it would make a lot of people give up and quit the server. Otherwise I'd like that also.. But the community isn't big enough these days.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm truly looking forward to a real XP loss in PVP. It gotta hurt when you die or it's no fun at all.

Item loot I'm only against cause I think it would make a lot of people give up and quit the server. Otherwise I'd like that also.. But the community isn't big enough these days.

Xp loss is almost as bad as item loss.

People will get deleveled by gank trains for the lulz.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People sometimes deciding not to get into fights because they might die? Sounds pretty great to me; realism is fun.

Thats not what i meant, how about people leaving the server, does that sound fun?

Or people racing to 50 without PVPing, that sound fun?

Anyway at this point ill wait and see, i think xp loss is a bad idea but whatever

[xblade724]

XP Death >> Terrible idea. This has been the worst:

* Population will exponentially rage quit. Easy to get over lost coin, even if plentiful, but not xp death
* Deep morale loss -- go to a beer, come back dead, not only xp is gone with countless hours wasted, but also out of mana!
* Clerics will be the richest on the server hands down - later on , economy will be broken
* Too scared to pvp because of xp deaths -- don't worry about too many pkers if this was the original case; remember the original red? It becomes 90% anti anyways and almost requires you to have a good guild for a good group
* Ganking is too easy, too common, someone just swings by and hits you once when running away from a mob. XP loss.
* Guards not being able to defend you makes no feeling of safe haven anywhere. Original game, nothing more satisfying then running low hp to a guard and going to a guard knowing that kelethin music means you are almost safe, and grabbing a beer n taking a sh*t -- when can we grab a beer and take a sh*t? When?!


While on the topic,
Guards not defending >> Terrible idea. This has been the.. 2nd worst:

* NOT fun that the guards won't do shit for you unless ally (current system) -- by the time you are ally with a guard, it doesn't MATTER anymore! When are there guards that make a difference at higher levels?
* NOT fun that 1 person can grind to get ally faction and just go around the city destroying people, but if 1 person were to attack him (despite his 20-kill streak), the guards attack you back, making him completely invulnerable to anything and anyone if in a city
* Oldschool feeling of a safe haven with the epic guards (in classic)
* It's very fun trying to find alternate ways to kill someone by the guards (in classic)
* Fun to find creative spots where the guards won't attack you in a city (in classic)
* Factions are meaningless now unless ally .. each one on classic used to have a purpose. The guards will simply defend whoever is higher. It's FUN to be a pker and decide if you are going to risk you're higher faction than the other guy. Or having some poor sap attack you realizing you are warmly when they are indifferent. Remember the scale?
>> If you are Indifferent, the guards will protect you from anyone indifferent (same) or below
>> If you are Amiable, the guards will protect you from anyone indifferent or below (same with Warmly)
>> If you are ally, the guards will protect you from ANYONE unless they are ally as well (then they won't intervene)
>> If both ally, they won't intervene at all

[Liebestod]

1.) a.) If you were one hit from impending death, your chances of survival were not guaranteed anyways.

b.) If you have to grab a beer, take a shit, or otherwise be away from your screen, log the FUCK out. That's just retarded. Back in live I went to the char select screen, somehow it logged me back in, and I lost an item (Rallos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) Now I know just to go back to server select.

2.) Faction/Guard protect will be fixed when they can. They know.

If you are worried about people not pvp'ing because they fear exp loss, why are you not worried they avoid pve for the same reason? Plus from what I understand you lose WAY more in PVE than in PVP. Even if you didn't.... you should be prepared for that when you chose to play here. It wasn't a secret.

[Kevris]

I feel that a situation in which an attacker, whom already has the advangate of surprise, is guaranteed he's fighting a lower-level player, via the con system, combined with experience loss for those killed in PVP creates a rather nasty scenario.

Kill and be killed, sure, but I believe that that some of the systems in place at this time cater to -and even encourage- griefing rather than the fun EQ PVP I fondly remember for the low levels on TZ, circa 2000.

Curious, gentlemen, what is the behavior incented by including an experience loss for PVP deaths? What was the development team trying to get people to do, or not do, when this went in?

[xblade724]

I feel that a situation in which an attacker, whom already has the advangate of surprise, is guaranteed he's fighting a lower-level player, via the con system, combined with experience loss for those killed in PVP creates a rather nasty scenario.

Kill and be killed, sure, but I believe that that some of the systems in place at this time cater to -and even encourage- griefing rather than the fun EQ PVP I fondly remember for the low levels on TZ, circa 2000.

Curious, gentlemen, what is the behavior incented by including an experience loss for PVP deaths? What was the development team trying to get people to do, or not do, when this went in?

^ This

How about making it so that if you initiate the battle, you have a 30 minute timer for xp death from player. If defending yourself and you die, you don't lose xp. Defenders get a 5 minute bubble to not lose exp from players. Also a bubble preventing xp death for the one that died in a pvp battle? In other words, if you want to risk an engagement, you are risking your xp. Defenders lose their coin, morale, kill (if fighting a mob), have to return to corpse, re-mem spells, and run completely out of mana. That's already a huge hit.

Jesus if you want a more "hardcore" pvp, why not do the standard rallos zek ruleset where you lose an item that's restricted to droppable, non-weapon/bagged items? Not only is it more classic, but you have to realize that we all played EQ 15 years ago - we all are now 25+ or so and have jobs lives (well, more lives than when we were 13) etc. We simply don't have enough time to recover from so much pvp exp loss. Server pop is high now, but only just because it was recently released. I'm a good example of this -- I am enjoying it temporarily, but I can't see myself playing this for too much longer with this current system. Same with my friends.

Or perhaps tripled the exp gain on the server. This server is already NOT strict classic, so why not make it more enjoyable. People may shout "NO! Classic no triple exp!" but face it, you just want to catch up with your friends and enjoy the server -- why do you see 99% of everyone doing kelethin mail runs and that stupid misty quest to the guard for xp/money repeatedly? Because you gain exp faster than leveling! At least if the exp was tripled, you could play the game like normal instead of stupid ass mail quests and keep your battle skills up to par.

Whoever said risk of exp loss from PvE, PvE is more predictable and you can be more away of a mob that's going to gank you when low -__- bad comparison

[oldfish]

I would rather have everyone run naked like Rallos because of item loss with no xp loss and lots of pvp than this pvp lite system where people run after the first deaths. Youre never going to have long drawn out epic fights with xp loss. Not only that, the pop is going to take a nosedive real fast.

We did run out holocaust from guk... they just camped/plugged/ran out... epic pvp fights amirite.

If you really want someone to take a XP hit while PVPing, engage him when hes fighting in pve and let him die to a mob... just like classic.

On rallos, youd have a fun pvp session of a couple of hours, then go back to leveling up. This is just like Rallos, minus the fun pvp sessions part.

You can still decide who own camps without xp loss, one side is going to get tired of dying sooner or later. You just get to have fun pvping while doing that.