Project 1999 PvP Open Broadcast Discussion *Rescheduled*

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Stasis01 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nihilum kills every target other than VP or trak on one day back to back - if another raid shows up they will go pvp them first (which is the united states vs an african tribe with spears)

That itself is a broken system that doesn't promote pvp - it griefs the guild that shows up to try to snatch a dragon and gets their ass kicked every time vs full numbers of the #1 guild.

I was in Nihilum for awhile, they aren't strong at off peak times - while variance on blue may not be the answer, on red it would be worth a shot, they just don't have the people to be all in 7 days a week, and it'll show who wants Sev more at 2am for example, since it's all on one day they show up and get it done.

PS Teams isn't about making balance at end game - it's about having a low level/mid level community of players that can work together and not be worried about getting killed in group low hp, killed straight up. On red99 new players are isolated to play solo, most other players are existing high lvls that are looking to grief/YT, and they end up bored/frustrated and end up quitting. With teams you look for backup among team mates, securing zones for the teams etc that build community that should be the focus of these PVP talks.

Everyone knows the resists are fucked - but those aren't core issues that are why red99 sucks.

Stasis fails to realize what has happened on blue with variance will happen on red. Nihilum would expand their roster by 2x. No longer would they reject 75% of the apps they get but would add builk so they can cover the variance times.

Then when nihilum is rolling with 70+ active members the competition will have ZERO chance.

In variance no one wins.

[Stasis01]

Elderan is about efficiency - which is why transferring from blue to raid on red with back to back raid mobs one day a week sounds very attractive.

He has no concerns over a healthy population/fun/growing server - he will argue EQ PvP has no appeal to most gamers and is just a small niche group and many other pointless arguments that I won't get into - just wanted people to realise where he comes from, and why he says the things he does.

These are all lies and there are ways to make it attract new players, and you will notice a trend among the Nihilum no lifers that all claim the same thing that everything is great. The population, and entire existence of red99 has shown otherwise.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People want to join PVP to PVP. The true pvp'ers will go the side where pvp is plentiful; that is not the winning side. Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease will remain on the winning side. Team pvp makes it easier for those who don't want to be those easymode douches to come together.

Red99 already sees the "Griefer bitches who don't want a challenge and want to dominate with ease." They are in the top guild.

I also find it funny how salty offers his (what he thinks is) expert opinion on how team pvp will fail, yet he strongly supports FFA pvp which is failing thus why we are having this discussion.

Yeah thats why nihilum is so unpopular, cuz cheesy wins is not the fasttrack way to get geared up etc... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The server failed because xp loss in pvp was removed far too late in the servers life. Theres no way in hell a bunch of PVEers would have been allowed to farm these zones, build up this huge gear discrepancy if people would have been able to guerilla challenge them.

[heartbrand]

Server is awful but variance only helps nihilum. I've pointed this out 100x and I've yet to see a well argued counter to my points. If you think variance helps the little guys check out blue where TMO, the nihilum of blue except even larger, gets almost every target every week. You have a competition of 15-20 people on red, if that, who take hours to mobilize to anything. But yet stasis would have you believe they would somehow manage to create ranger and monk alts (all other tracking sucks now) and plant them at all raid spawns and check them 24:7 then bat phone 20 people and be able to mobilize to the target before nihilum. These are the same people who can't mobilize to targets that they know the spawn time of. Ragefire, a variance mob, was killed by nihilum at a 100% rate for two months. It didn't matter if it spawned at 1am or 1pm we got it and had a solid 20 people show up to the bonus dkp event every time without fail.

Stasis claims nihilum has low numbers during the week. That's an effect of no variance it's not a cause. If there were to be variance nihilum would show up, there would be no pvp because guess what they would log on within five minutes of the bat phone and be at OT ready for port. Actually ill take it a step further. The vast majority of neck beards in my guild will have level 60 alts for each mob parked at the pull spot. This will probably even be incentivized by nizzar with bonus velious dkp. All that will have to be done is one of the big time no lifers like my pal tune or rallyd will see something like VS up and ill log my vs alt on for 15 minutes boom bonus dkp log off for another day.

The only mobs the opposition have ever gotten on red have been because of no variance. Kringe crew was able to get to Trakanon hours before the spawn and set up, and believe me hours to set up is what they needed with that crew. With variance, they aren't getting even five people to TT before trak is killed by our trak alts who will all be perma camped on poop mountain.

I await eagerly the counter that shows how in fact variance will somehow be radically different than as I described and as it has played out on blue. Nihilum will recruit every single person that apps and no longer will I be able to derail app threads by saying we don't need more people, because with variance we will take everyone. Variance will result in less competition if that even seems possible, even less pvp, and a whole lot of threads accusing us of MQ for knowing when mob x spawns (when in reality it will be the fact that tune was there for 22 hours). If anything variance is great for me since I work from home. I can easily log on my different raid alts for five to ten minutes depending on the mob and get triple dkp or whatever nizzar will throw at me as opposed as having to sit through a three hour repop day in one sitting.

P.s variance will make overlapping mobs few and hard to come by which will make velious, an expac that the opposition could flourish in, an absolute disaster. Be careful what you wish for.

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Copy pasting some commentary on Nihilum/balanced pvp, but relevant feedback if were gonna do an assesment of where pvp server went wrong:

Not out to bash the devs, really appreciate the server being put up. Maybe this can help them make their next project a better success. Would crop it but can never tell if devs read so...

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I kind of pride myself on speaking my mind, no matter which side of the fence im sitting, so here goes.

For the month i was in nihilum, i can honestly say its the less loot whoring environment ive been in. Was handed that dracolich 2h about 2 days in by a random officer. Maybe cuz they out of bank space and swimming in loot (lol) but still a long way from having guildies roll on a really good shaman piece they cant use (fungi), that i would use all the time to pvp for the guild, to put on their lowbie ranger or whatever, which happened to me in azrael, twice. The first time the guy who won and rolled against me was actually already wearing one.

Nihilum though does like that gear gap, doesnt appear to want healthy competition that keeps things interesting for everyone, so unfortunatly, most things ive seen posted here from them, especially dullah, is intended to make them keep that dominance, no matter the consequences on the servers population.

Nihilum should really take a good look at themselves and ask themselves if they really gonna have fun farming pixels on a dead server. I think unfortunatly again the answer is yes, cuz the pvp they seem to be addicted to is gear advantage + overwhelming numbers for cheesy wins. This would not have mattered if people would have been allowed to challenge Nihilum with lower numbers from the get-go, which because of xp loss in pvp, they were prevented from doing. People would have contested them daily and Nihilum would have had to work hard, daily, to get those drops. Not having a free for all, uncontested loot fest for a year straight.

The fault doesnt really fall with Nihilum though. Its the devs who should have stepped in when players (especially persistently annoying people like me) who kept repeating, day in day out, week after week, months after months, that xp loss in pvp only advantages zergs, lets people farm raid zones uncontested, helps griefers bleed out potential new blood out of the server. Id say thats where 95% of where the fault lies. Nihillum and griefers were just using the tools the devs were handing out to them. I think we would have a totally different server if devs had reacted quickly to correct the situation instead of kneejerking ``this isnt cod`` and dismissing valuable player feedback. Players didnt even have to actively think about this, the way the server was set up by the devs at launch, dramatically and by default tipped the balance in favor of guilds that have huge numbers. It was the same story with holocaust when server launched, nobody would go in Guk and challenge them for it. This was pointed out to them from the servers launch, repeatedly. There is no ``maybe you people should stop griefing`` excuse for it.

Protip for would be leaders and players: its just a fucking game. Rolling on a fungi with your chanter against a main shaman is retarded and doesnt build a community feeling where everyone feels theyre sticking up for each other.

I dont think ive ever seen this level of loot whoring in any other game before than here on p99 red, and im not talking about Nihilum. Not totally pissing on azrael, some cool people in it like jezibell.

-Ecoli

If someone tried to roll on a fungi against me who already had one when I didn't I'd loot it and pk him on the spot. Not sure why you didn't do that.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If someone tried to roll on a fungi against me who already had one when I didn't I'd loot it and pk him on the spot. Not sure why you didn't do that.

I was just kind of shocked, both times, that somebody would do that. My thought was how stupid do you have to be to not understand this is the kind of stuff that break guilds apart, just for you to get some pixels. For the cherry on top while i was pulling in King room and could still read local chat, the guy who won said something like this would be great on my lvl16 ranger. Youd expect Random PUGs to do that. Guild group? Twice? Wtf.

I didnt wanna start drama within the guild thats basically the only serious challengers to the main zerg guild here. To be honest if there wasnt people like Jezibell in Azrael i would have left a long time ago, ill leave it at that.

Anyway kind of offtopic here so ill stop being a thread terrorist

[heartbrand]

It's not really off topic at all. Everyone here is brain storming ways to kill nihilum because they think that's how they will improve the server. Be it teams or variance or other changes (which I argue would all be neutral or actually help nihilum). But what these people don't seem to get is that its the players who enable nihilum by being fags like you describe. Everyone hates on the pve pixel whores of nihilum but yet the biggest loot whores all seem to be in the competition. I've never seen people in nihilum roll on fungis vs mains who don't have them. People are always tremendously helpful to port you / help pl for free / help you farm stuff. The attitude is completely different on the other side, I know I've been on both. That's the reason nihilum thrives.

[heartbrand]

Anyone thinking variance will help other guilds compete should be forced to read the current "is the raid scene really that bad" thread on blue and every other variance thread on the blue boards.

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've pointed this out 100x

stopped reading here; this is true

seek help

[heartbrand]

I remember when that meme was funny when chuck did it 6 months ago.